Grifting in the Name of God: When Clickbait Replaces the Great Commission

 Welcome to another episode of the Carpe Feade podcast where if the shoe fits you wear it and if the truth hurts you bear it I am Justin Gruber and I am Jesse Gruber and today we hope you will seize the faith Hey everybody welcome to episode 232 of the Carpe Feade podcast That's right, 232. How you doing Jess? I'm doing great. The internet has been absolutely wild these past few weeks and we are trying to sort it all out. Yes, it's been a situation. It's like, you know, no, it's been a situation after situation after situation is what it's been. It's like when you have a sink full of dishes and you know you have to deal with it and you deal with some of it but it's just such a chore and speaking of chores, we would like to tell you about a brand new Carpe Feade sponsor Alright so I would like to tell you about a Carpe Feade sponsor. Justin and I entered Fistacuff's over this. And in an act of pity towards me, he forfeit the fight and now I get to read it. 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We just support awesome people that live here in you. We just support people inside you. That's correct. Speaking of people inside you are next sponsor. Now just going. What? Oh, I'm so concerned. All right. We're going to be one of the episode now. Tonight's topic is what are you talking about tonight, Jesse? Dude, we're talking about people inside you. I'm sorry. I'm just in my mind. I'm sorry, everyone. We are going to talk about one of the recent discussions from earlier this month that Joel Weben had with his two co-hosts on the new Christian right, the NXR Studios YouTube page, entitled How Can America Best Love Blacks? This entire conversation is framed with the Carmelo Anthony trial as the verdict was coming out. They were recording this. And so they felt it a relevant topic to rehash from a unique perspective that we just we have some concerns about. I don't know. Yes, I might say it's from a unique perspective, but discuss this topic. Our friend we shared the episode with was our longtime friend in ministry. Nate and McCartney was joining us tonight because he had some thoughts and he wanted to talk about and we're like, hey, bro, why don't we record a podcast? How you doing, Nate? I'm doing all right. How are you guys? Exhausted. All right. And we're I have a feeling we're guys, guys, guys, this episode it's going to make Justin angry and I just wanted to warn everybody that there will be rants and it's it's it's just it is what it is, but I just wanted to warn I'm going to try to let how much I let Josie and Nathan talk a lot and because mostly like your options are going to be like anger or quiet Justin. So rather than offend everyone, I'll try to allow the Lord to temper my anger and to write his anger. Oh man. So Nathan, you you actually were a responsible don't and took some notes on the episode. What are what are your general thoughts from the from the discussion? Can you give us a 50,000 foot view on on your takeaways? Do you feel edified? Do you feel like your life was changed? Do you feel like you've been given something new to chew on? What what what what are your initial initial thoughts? Do I feel like my life was changed? I think is probably the best question for me to answer. I can say firmly no it hasn't been changed. However, my life has been disturbed. I can say that for sure. I don't know I don't know how to give a higher view of this because it was quite off-putting to me personally and I guess my concern is that when we have Christians who are supposed to stand on truth and live in truth don't do that. It causes confusion. It causes frustration. It causes for people to not understand or not see what we're actually saying and what we actually mean. And so I guess that's where my biggest frustration came in because I don't think in the name of Christ I don't think that they landed anywhere near Christ or anything concrete. And so there was a lot of death and it's given there was a lot of dogmatic statements made but I don't believe that we got to the truth of the scriptures and where where they land. Yeah, I think it's safe to say that Justin and I also were off-putting by some of the things. Now, I guess rather than just saying the name of the YouTube video that we watched, which again is how can America best love blacks? And I'm not going to lie. I don't think I wouldn't like it. But the discussion was basically how can we bless best love blacks in America? And the framing of the discussion was that blacks are violent and are problematic and are unintelligent and we should be using the death penalty generously in this country so that blacks can behave better, I guess, would be one way of putting it. Do you guys feel like I'm summing up kind of the core argument there? I personally got the words eradicate or extinguished is what popped in my hand based off of listening to this. So I got a little bit more of an aggressive push from what was being said. Yeah, but they're going to keep Clarence Thomas and Thomas Soul. So there's at least that. Yeah, they're not picking shoes. That's the which which which black people stay in which ones though? Yes, yes. There's heritage black just like there's heritage whites. So there's the. Can you explain that? Can you explain that heritage black heritage whites a little bit? Yeah, Ilan Omar is not a heritage black. She is a refugee. This is not her country. She wasn't born here. As opposed to Clarence Thomas who was born here grew up here. He lives here like his country. Like you you're here. Your parents were here. You are here. You're not an immigrant. You're not a migrant. You're not a foreigner. You're an American. So, so, okay, so, so I guess where I got confused was is he said that if you're not a heritage black, then shipping you out of the country is the focus. If you are heritage black, then either it's extinguished or come under whatever the ideology of the country is as kind of the focus. Is that what? Yeah, so they're they're four master deportations. And when I say master deportations, I mean, orders of magnitude larger than what Trump is currently doing. They are unhappy with Trump with the very quote-unquote slow rate of deportation that he is doing. They want people rounded up in the streets. They want people put on planes and they want people to go back to their country of origin. Yes, they want that. And then what I just want to say one of the hardest points about discussion is there are so many areas in which I agree with the word Joe Evans says. And yet at the same time, I suddenly find myself not just disagreeing, but, but ardently angry at the things Joe Evans says. I also believe we could do a lot more deportations from America. I actually, it's actually a more majority of you that there are many people that are here that actually should not be here. That's not an offensive view. The breakdown of racial identity in this podcast is it's I mean, I would just probably straight up say it's unbiblical, like holistically unbiblical. It is in biblical error. I would cite first Peter 29. I will gladly read it later if it's appropriate. That is what we should be striving for as Christians. That is what we're talking about. And the breakdown of white and black in this discussion. The reality was, if you want this discussion broken down, the reality of this conversation was, how do we administer the blacks in America? That was the title of this. That was what this was supposed to be a discussion of. How can America best love blacks? There we go. And the best way we can love blacks, essentially, the only biblical argument it was made was to institute a biblical death penalty for violent crime and all crimes, subscribe, all crimes that the Bible would prescribe the death penalty for. Now, can I pause you there? Because I actually took issue with this. They did not actually say that necessarily because he also endorsed things that England and Texas did, which went far and above and beyond what God actually would say. So like they were praising laws in Texas where you would get capital punishment for stealing a man's horse. Yes, that's the did. So what that is is statism and that's wrong. So right, the only place they mentioned the Bible was in the no way covenant, which is not the only place that the death penalty is mentioned. You could go to Exodus 20 and subsequent chapters when Moses is given the law. You could go to Leviticus, you could go to Deuronomi. There are many places where the death penalty is prescribed. They did go above and beyond. But I was trying to give them credit for at least using the Bible on that. Yeah, I wasn't giving them. But that is a intensely myopic way to approach ministering. First of all, I don't. The thing that bothers me is you want to minister to to Muslims. You want to minister to to blacks. You want to minister to whites. You want to minister to Jews. You want to manage the Bible is clear. There's only one truth. It's all the same. There's there is one way holistically in a culture. Yes, instituting the death penalty, which we've done numerous podcasts on and been exhaustive about. It is good and right because it allows it allows laws to be what they're supposed to be a terror to the unrighteous and joy to the righteous. We should be instituting penalties appropriate for crime and it should be served quickly and judiciously to break it down as if that's the way to best minister in America. To any people group is not true. It's it's it's it's a great way to minister to a society holistically by upholding biblical mandates. That is one. Certainly that is not what I would say is even close to the best of biblical model. So I don't know what we're talking about. Yeah, I think I think I'm not to talk around you Nate. I'm sorry. No, you're good. You're good. So I think Luke Saint kind of kind of blackpilled me on this whole whole thing because now all I see is inconsistencies in theonomy applied with Joel Webin and general equity theonomy, which is probably a topic that we should talk more about. But the things that the things that these men on this podcast are introducing go above and beyond God's law, which means that they think they know better than God and can apply God's law better than God can. And I think that I think that that kind of captures the haughty the haughty and arrogant attitude that the vibe I guess that I got from listening to this podcast. And I think it's summed up for me personally best in that should America institute a death penalty for the things that God prescribes the death penalty to. Yes, absolutely. That will help and be a huge benefit for our society. Things like abortion for one. You know, I think that that would be a fantastic, fantastic thing. But it's really interesting how heavily they leaned on death to blacks in this episode. And I think that that was the thing that was extremely off-putting to me because I want a white murderer to be put to death just the same as I would want a Hispanic murderer or a black murderer or a Japanese murderer and granted. What? Mertiger. Mertiger. Mertiger. I agree. I mean, that's what consistent justice looks like. And everything that is wrong, we all can acknowledge that there's problems in our legal system. We all acknowledge them. And they do point out the problems in our legal system. They also point out problems in our legal system that we weren't able to find. But they do cite the problems in our legal system. Just because there's problems with the legal system does not mean we abandon what the Bible says. It doesn't mean we go anywhere but what the Bible says. There is no reconciliation ever at all without first gospel reconciliation. And we know this as Christians. Where what else do we have? There is the ministry of reconciliation that Paul speaks about being given to Christians is that of sharing the gospel. It is not of the spirit working in their heart. God does that. We are commanded to share the gospel. That is it. That is what we are to do. Yeah, I guess my question is when they ask the question, how can America best love blacks? I feel like they're talking about the sphere of the state, not necessarily the sphere of the church. Which is my issue because they're talking from a platform that is a Christian based platform that should be that that is what I would have assumed is what they're talking about and not the state. And that's a fair assumption I think. I don't think a Christian I don't think a Christian starts speaking out. Good. Yes. Well, I was going to say a Christian cannot speak of the state and give up their Christianness. Right. Right. That's what I was going to say. So you did a great job. I do want to say way back when right response was just a podcast at a video. Joel Webman was very kind to Carpe Feade. And he shared our shirt and our message to support the Canadian churches that were being stolen and prisoned, locked down, pastors being thrown jail. Our interactions with Joel were kind and he was gracious and we had a lovely conversations. This whole movement that has occurred to me doesn't feel the same in any way. And it feels like suddenly we've gone to some sort of bait level of interactions with people that I don't I find intensely unnot helpful. These are not helpful. These are really helpful. What you want is a homogeneous white population. If you would like a white gated community, these are great conversations to have. So this is a little sidebar but Jesse and I were talking about this earlier. It feels like we never got to anything solid in this. And one of my frustrations and a lot of these podcasts is they're doing the same thing that the other side is doing. They are pointing out things to say this is not good. This is not what we want. This is all these things but there never is a landing on anything solid. There's never a landing on truth. There's never a landing on. Okay, so this is what the Bible says we should do or this is where we're going with this. And that's where I'm still confused as to what happened in this episode because we didn't get anywhere other than the mass expectation and eradicating blacks. That's really kind of all that we got to. Again, not eradicating. We're not eradicating. We're just removing the black immigrants that are not legally here that are just refugees just leaching off the country. That's basically Joel's premise of that just to be clear. I think when he was talking about eradicating I think he met through the execution system. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because that's where I'm going. And I'm not again, like you said, Joseph, I'm not against the death penalty for the things that God would say death is necessary for. However, I'm getting the vibe from him that he gave this story of his friend and this was related to the subject matter of the someone who's special needs or whatever and doesn't understand or can't understand so therefore the law does not apply to them. He gave the story of the guy who from other countries friend. Yeah. Oh, I said, man, it's from the book of I said, man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think that we have to be careful that when speaking from these platforms that we do not speak in a way that will allow people to think that they then can take on certain things that they can't that's not permitted for them that falls outside of scripture. And I'm leading more towards the vigilante and hierarchy level of things that God would not allow that for. Yeah. And they're always the problem is it's this wink and nod at it, right? Because it's never, well, we don't want to be vigilantes. But if we continue in this path, this is what's this is going to happen. This breakdown is going to happen. So it's this wink and nod at it that does become a little it becomes unnerving because it's like, yeah, I hear what you're saying. I'm concerned that you you're saying you want it to be not that but if it goes the other way, it's okay. I don't know. Is that what you're doing? Yeah. At the end, he did give his his prescription. And this is one of the things where I found it just to be a very cowardly discussion. There were no solutions because the Bible wasn't really used. And since the Bible's not used, there's never going to be a good resolutions. The basic premise was we had all the boomers have to die. The boomers are a problem. And the boomers have hurt him. The boomers should point on the doll where the boomers have hurt you. And when you point on the doll, you that way, you'll know that you will hurt by the boomers. And then once the boomers die in another future generation, you know, a stronger generation will come will arise and will handle this problem. Which is just to me, a intensely cowardly way out of actually dealing with the reality. And it's so shocking because Joe Webman is supposed to be this ardent fighter, this warrior. And I'm like, really bro? Like that's what you've got. Like, really? Like, no, absolutely not. I reject everything you're saying. Like, stand up. Do something about it. Don't talk about it. Be about it. If you got, if this is what you think, be about it. But that was kind of the really gross part. That was that was his solution. The solution is our legal system is broken. Our judges are bad. And our jurors are racially biased all the time. And there's never going to be a fair law. And hopefully a future generation after the boomers die will have a, you know, strong sense of morality. Which is not a plan. It's like, it's like Nick Flentus. I, you know, every, every person that's in politics is just run by the Jews and we need to party. Well, how would you do? I don't know. I'm just saying that's the problem. So it's not a solution, bro. Like, it was, it was, it was a lot of we need to do something and we need to do all of this. We need to do whatever. And then it was, but we'll let whatever be be. And it's going to pan out sooner or later because people are tired or people are getting fed up or whatever it was. There was never a actual, hey, here's, here's where we're going. Here's what this should be. The fun part is this. We're on the other side of the, of the Metcalf trial. And there was no riots. There were no violent outbursts that that didn't happen. Everything that they said was what would happen. It didn't happen. He was found guilty. He, but there's no dispute over whether or whether or not he actually stabbed, whether or not, Kermitla Anthony actually stabbed, all of the Metcalf with a knife in the heart and murdered him. That that absolutely happened. There wasn't dispute there. The extended circumstances were not on his side. The witnesses were not there for it. And he was found guilty. There were no riots. As a society, we are identifying things differently when it comes to these racially motivated crimes that have any sense of race. And to be honest, this wasn't a racially motivated crime. This was two teenagers. This was people being stupid. This wasn't racially motivated. Kermitla Anthony didn't walk into that. Austin Metcalf was white and stabbed him in the chest. That's not what happened. It was tried to, it was tried to, it was right. Justin, but because he's black, but because he's black, he's more prone to violence and, of course, you know, one thing. Yeah. And so one of the things, oh, no, I want to talk about this. Do you? Because Nathan, Nathan, you're black, right? Yeah. Nathan is the nonviolent person. All together is not a violent person. So it's like, I don't think that's true. And in this, I don't think I've ever seen Nathan lash out in any physical violence in any way ever. Yeah. No, not that I've seen. What you do in your home when I'm not there, that's a different story. But if from what I've seen. But when he talks about the reality, and this is something that you cannot possibly drill down enough on, he he's talking about this as a problem. There are countries in Africa made up of black people that have outlawed homosexuality. That is a far more Christian position than America's position. Like, that is a better position. They're under the Jim Crow South. Black marriages were trending, trending towards being stronger than white marriages. Like, that is a real thing that was happening in statistics. What messed it up, Justin? You don't want to ask me that question. I just want to say that it undercuts his argument. It's not a black thing. Right. It wasn't because they got more black. Yeah, they didn't book. Right. It's not because they got more black. No, you're correct, Jesse. It's not because they got more black. It's because it's because the progressive ethos has fed into these underlying issues that have allowed cultural and ideological things to weigh into how people think and act. And the way you undo cultural issues is at a spiritual level with another ideology that is true and right. That is how you do it. I thought it was by executing people. That's how I thought we did that. That's what I don't want to. That's what Hitler did. I'm sorry, dude. I thought that I disagree with you. We just went into a different thought park. I stopped. I know. Did Jesse come back? No, I think just is this. But what I don't want is that true laws and justice do inform laws and form conscience. It's that's the biblical perspective. And so to have a death penalty, that is clear and carried out swiftly is appropriate. It's a good thing. It doesn't form you on what you shouldn't do. I don't think they actually wanted to kill all the blacks. I don't think that was actually. They never actually said those words. Nonetheless, will you be? No, they didn't stay all that they didn't stay those words. But what we got from or at least I got from the conversation was because they chose not to actually stand on truth and not on stand on something that that we all could have grabbed a hold of. It came across that. That is what they were saying. And then they would cover it with, well, not every. Or there are these one off white scenarios where this was a thing and this is how it played out. So it is possible for blacks to do the same exact thing. And that's where I think they went off in that they didn't completely say what they were saying. They only just gave these anecdotal stories of things leaning towards almost 90% of eradication of blacks through the death penalty. And then exportation of those who aren't heritage blacks. Yes. And he did go off. I think it about 50 minutes about how we need to have a homogeneous core in the nation. And by homogeneous core, he means a homogeneous white core. And that's problematic for me because that is not what the Bible says. I'll just go to read it. I'm just going to do it because this is important to me. First Peter 2.9 says this, but you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession so that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who has called you out of darkness and into his marvelous light. And there's two important words that I like to focus in on, especially in our understanding. Christians are in God's economy, a brand new race. They are a new genos. So in the Greek, but you are a chosen race, which is the quote of the Old Testament, but the word race here in the Greek is genos. You are a chosen genos. You are a royal priesthood. You are a holy nation, the word nation, ethnos. You are a new ethnic ethnos. That is the reality of what it means to be a Christian. That is the ethnicity we should be focusing on. And that ethnicity doesn't get a crap about how much or how little melanin you have. It is a total regardless thing in God's economy. The question about your ethnos in God's economy is, are you in the kingdom? And if you are in the kingdom, here is how you continue to establish the kingdom by proclaiming the excellencies of him who has called you out of darkness and into his marvelous light. That is the reality. And the problem was that is not just a solution inside the church, that is God's solution from the church to then speak into the nation, the city, and to then speak into the family. The church is the preeminent sphere of sovereign God gives because it informs a nation how it should go. God's law informs what is righteous, someone is unrighteous, so that laws can be righteous and it arides to the unrighteous. God's law teaches how a family should look and should be. And the honest truth is, when we did the civil rights move, which by the way I agree with them. I agree fully with them on them. We did not need the civil rights movement in America. I believe Martin Luther King Jr. was not a great guy. I believe Malcolm X also, I guess Joe Webman thinks, was also not a great guy. I believe they were both intensely racially motivated. And I believe that because they were racially motivated, they actually were willing to make errors. Now I don't believe Martin Luther King was in any way a Jewish siop. I believe he was a Marxist influence prosperity preaching person. That's just who he was. You'll notice we don't talk about siops on here. We want to say everything is an op so that we don't have to actually give it a count for it. We actually want to account for the things we say both historically and also biblically. But what the reality is, we didn't need the civil movement. We had all the constitutional protections that were needed for countries that were making unconstitutional laws to withhold from them federal funding and to crush the state. That is what we had in the civil rights movement was absolutely something that has been the bane of all exists, all the existence of all people that love Christ because it allowed the progressive movement to then move it into every aspect they want where they think they're at your monoc power imbalance. Sorry, I ran to it. LBJ, LBJ was the guy that put his war poverty which crushed the black family and made it more economically beneficial with free handouts from the government for the black family to just kind of disappear. That's where this went. That's how this happened. It happened because of ideology, ideology, ideology against God. If we would just talk about biblical Christian ideology, that is how we will absolutely minister in America to blacks and whites and purples, it doesn't matter. Even though wonderful little blue hair, quite ladies, they need Jesus, they need us proclaiming the excellencies of the one who has brought us from darkness into his marvelous light. I think that I've said it before and I'll say it again because I think it's so pertinent to every single one of these conversations when it comes to the new Christian right, the new NXR and all these discussions because I really, really think that the power of the gospel is severely underestimated with these guys because I don't really hear it talked about terribly much. We're fighting an ideological battle. Progressivism has created a lot of the mess that we see and the church needs to fight against that and speak into the state about that and it needs to speak into the family about that so that families change their trajectory and so that families change the trajectory of their towns and counties and states and country. These discussions are also really hard for me because I do think that there is a bit of sneakiness involved because I do think that they are talking specifically about this state. Where are the Venn diagrams crossed or where the concentric circles line up or whatever? I know that everything that you said to me is true as a Christian but I just feel like if you were speaking to Joe Weben to his face he'd be like, I'm not talking about any of that. Of course that's our responsibility. I'm talking about what's the responsibility of our country to deal with this issue. But I would respond that I would want the ethnos of our country to be Christian. And I think that there's only one way that that actually happens and that's by, I don't know, God forbid spreading the gospel, doing the great commission that we all hold to dearly and that Joel also would say that he holds dearly. I just don't hear it talked about and maybe it's just a difference of strategy maybe but I feel like that's an important piece to miss for Christian in terms of strategy. I think when you're playing the race card as hard as he is that that causes you to be blind and I just want to say this, off air, I'm very clear, I actually don't think this is actually how any of these people actually are. I really don't. I think that this is largely something done to grow the revenue service of the streams and the clicks and the online social world. That's what I think it is. And it's intensely unhelpful. I think it's, I think it's retarded to quote Joe Webman. It's absolutely retarded. I agree. The problem is, there are plenty of actual policy level conversations to be had around this. This wasn't a policy conversation. It wasn't. And that's where I have a problem with like, with where you're with what you just said, Jesse, sure. He was talking about the state and yet he offered nothing. Absolutely nothing. And came to the end of his discussion saying, hopefully another generation does a good job and really that that's what he said. That is what he said. His exact words. So he can say he was talking about the state yet he offered absolutely no solutions. Well, he offered mass deportations and he offered the death penalty for violent crime. Those were his state. He did also say that if a judge which is randomly arbitrarily, if the second time a judge lets a person off and they commit a violent crime, the judge should be held responsible. And he was mostly talking about women judges. Which he said exactly verbatim. They should be. Now, here's the problem. I've done whole stories, news stories on this podcast about the fact that women progressive judges are of bioevil in the legal system. We've done whole, but but it's not because they're women. It's because they're progressive. There are bad male progressive judges that will then hand down a sentence and say we have to consider the previous harm done to this individual because of their cultural heritage. And then undo their guilty earned handed down by a jury of their peers. That's a problem. We can agree. What's your solution? What's your solution? To yell in a podcast, you obviously are generating revenue. Have to listen to ads. So go start a law school like we're just shut up and pass to a church. Stop making it about race. The only race that you should be speaking about is that more people would become the holy race of God. That's how you solve the problem. Yeah, I think that it's frustrating because the underlying idea, because it's not just black people that are perpetrating heinous evils in this country, but there is an ideology that underlies a lot of the evils in this country. And that's the progressive ideologies. And that's why I say that we severely underestimate the power of the gospel because the only thing that can combat a progressive ideologies is the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is the only thing that has the power to truly and ultimately put that to death. Because a lot of these white people donated to Carmelo Anthony's GoFundMe that was not black. I guarantee you right into that. Don't you? I'm sorry. It was not black people that funded that. It was liberal progressive white people. And black people who you then black people who victimize themselves unnecessarily are living out the same progressive ideology, which is why which is why earlier when I said that it wasn't that they didn't get more black and therefore became worse prior to and during the civil rights movement. They became progressive and slaves to the progressive ideology. And that's what destroyed the black family. I'll let you talk. Nathan, did you did you feel like I got a vibe. I got a general victim vibe in this whole podcast video right now from Nathan bothered me. Did you pick up on that at all? That that that he was trying to state without stating it that majority of the black people play the victim. Is that what the vibe that you were picking up on? Well, he does say he does say that. But he also was playing the he was saying that was negative at the same time while playing the victim. So yes, so so that that I'm glad you brought that up. That is one thing that that bothered me because he was stating that white people were afraid to be on a train, be around black people, all of these things and that they're the ones that are being treated unfairly or wrong because of and and this is kind of how I took it because of how black people function and act and that they have not come under the ideology that he's presenting they should be under. Yes, that's that's I was picking up on that. I find these guys to be very whiny when they talk about plates against against white people and that's not because I don't think that there aren't any because I do think that the progressive ideology hates white people. So it's not that, but it's just like okay, so like you still have to do something. You still have to you still have to get up and go to work. Like you still have to you still have to preach the gospel. You still have to love your neighbor. Like like at what point are you going to get over yourself and actually do something. And I know that I know the people who are going to view this or listen to this podcast very critically are going to be like well they are doing something they're putting out the content. Okay, cool. Whatever. I don't really care about any of that. Like if God if God took this podcast away tomorrow, nothing really in our lives would change other than a bit more free time, but not even free time a bit more time to do ministry and be with our families and build our families. That's all that would change. Like the mission doesn't change just because culture doesn't like white people, just because progressive culture doesn't like white people. Like the culture there are the mission for Christians is the same everywhere. It's universal. I just it does come across as why I need to me. And I think that I think that just to just spiral on to a different topic, I think that there's I hate it. I hate it when people talk. I hate it when people generalize about black people and I hate it when people generalize about boomers. And I recognize that there are trends in both of those demographics that aren't great, but I had an amazing father and I have amazing black friends who love Christ and whose lives the power of the gospel has changed just as they've changed mine. And I have no fear of these people and I have no regret and shame about my father, but I'm curious as to whether or not these these men truly had good godly fathers that that were active and involved in their life because they act like little kids who they act like little whiny kids sometimes to me is what it comes across as who have never been corrected not to whine all the time by their dad. That's just kind of how it how it comes across to me. I don't know how it feels like to you, but what were you guys going to say? I'm done. I just keep going on these little cute dances. The when these this is this is where it becomes. If we know if we know like we absolutely know that the that the black family was strong and the black family was strong under racially charged Jim Crow laws by white people and that it and it was yes by white people and it was growing and then if we know that it's not black people that are donating all over the place for the for the um Camarilla Anthony and for the Anthony family we we know that there's a good number of real blue haired wholehearted progressives donating on that page. Then we already know that this is not an ideologically racial issue. Yes, there is there is absolutely more violent crime happening in the black community than in white communities. It is a statistical fact that does not make them more sinful or more in need or less in need of the gospel. Certainly violent crime should be punished and I believe violent crime should be punished in absolutely reciprocal ways according to God's law. Absolutely. I have 100% on on agreement with that. The problem is a four God gave his people a nation. He gave them the law. We're already working backwards. We're already working backwards. If you're saying the law is broken, we have a nation. We're going to start working we're going to have to start working backwards. That's going to mean more work. It's not going to mean well I hope a future generation handles it right. It means more engagement. It means more interaction. It means more public interaction. More polity interaction. That's what it means. It's not going to be we need a stronger hegemonic white power in this nation so that there is a common ground by which we can have more white jurors to deliberate. If we could just take a brief second to say it was stated in this podcast, there are numerous studies just look it up that white jurors are less biased and more focused on justice. There are not numerous studies and if they are, he can feel free to provide them. We found one research study that was done by a conservative think tank that came to that conclusion. But every other study that we found looking this up has made literally not even not even just the opposite conclusion. Now I understand that we live in a world where the world wants the opposite conclusion to be true. I understand the problems with academia. But if you're going to tell people that there is study after study after study, just look it up by God, we did. I've used the internet my entire life. I'm not a boomer. I know how to use it. And gosh, none of us are boomers. There's not a boomer to be found on a microphone on this podcast. I could not find it. There is one study that says in specifically racially motivated cases, white jurors can exhibit less bias, but not in every other case, which is the vast majority of cases. So the dream of making all white juries all across America really doesn't, it's not terribly played out in the data that I've been able to sift through, which is unfortunately way too much because this is so stupid that I have to look this up to even talk about it on the podcast. That's how I feel about it. But I guess we can just say whatever generalities we want as if they're true. Right. And that's another, that's another Nathan, I'm so glad that we had you on. I'm sorry, dude, interject whenever. It's all good. You're good. That's my, I do have some thoughts, but go ahead. Okay, I will conclude this and then feel free to feel free to share the Scottsday. Yes, you're such a jerk. We're such horrible hosts. Um, usually we do this is literally family. Like this is right. Yeah. This, this is nothing but a, well, when is a night community group? Yes. Yes. I don't even remember what I was going to say. I've not got a lot of what was I saying? Anybody help me? DVR. What was I saying? Um, um, we were talking about the jury thing. Um, my problem is, my problem is, is that I'm, I'm a leader, you're a leader. We, we, we, we all lead. Okay. And as a leader, I feel like I have a responsibility to give people information. That's true and not to misconstrue information. Or to just make it sound like one thing and have it actually be another. I think that that's actually evil to do, especially if it's on purpose. And that's exactly what Joel Weven did with this study. Again, please, if anyone listening to this has, has these studies, these study after study after study, as Joel claims, please send it to me. I would happily read it and I will recant on air, but I could not find them. Please, someone help me. But the reality is when you say that, you provide zero references for it. And you say, just look it up and expect no one to, to believe, to just believe you because you're an authority figure speaking on a podcast, a popular podcast. That's disgusting to me. That's disgusting to me. To tell people, to tell people something with such certainty. And oh, here's the point I was going to make. It's someone saying something that they want to be true without actually knowing if it is true. Just wish it into the cornfield, Jimmy. Just wish it. So I and I, I think that that's where bias, I think that that's where bias and especially with these with these racial issues, I think that that's where bias is so clearly seen because it's someone saying something that they wish to be true that may not actually be true. And they expect no one to try to look it up because they're so sure of themselves and their followers are so sure of themselves because they want something to be true so bad. You were saying anything? I'm done. I was going to say that that that that was the the level of dogmatic statements that were being made throughout the podcast. That the listener that is not astute to the scriptures would probably just go ahead and say, one, this is a Christian podcast, two, because of the platform and the following. I'm good here. I don't need to vet these things. And three, therefore, I can agree with and just follow these things. And I think I think that's where where ultimately I landed with all of it in that if you're going to have the platform, if you're going to put the conversation out there, if you're going to state things dogmatically, please by all mean have your have the ability to be able to back it. And then if you don't have the ability to back at least state that you don't have it, I think that that's so important. And again, that frustrates me with a lot of podcasts because in the name of Christian things, we hold fast and tight and true description. And when we don't, then we get off and we can still name the Christian Christian nation Christian podcast Christian song Christian whatever and put out things that are at times heretical, put out things at times that do not actually speak the truth on adulterated word of God. And so that that's kind of where I landed with this podcast. It was off putting across the board in a lot of areas. Like you guys said, I felt that there were points that that landed okay that that I agree with. But but holistically, because there was no actual landing on anything solid, even if it wasn't from scripture of stating of eggs, so here's where we stand, here's what we're going to do. I struggled to grab a hold of of the point of the podcast of how do we love black Americans as a country. I don't think we got there outside of getting rid of them. Not all of them. Just just the sum the sum was way more than some in my opinion. It felt like it was a push for more than some from from again, because there was nothing concrete in getting that impression that that was the focus. I thought about second Timothy a couple of times as they were speaking. And that second Timothy 36 and 17 that speak that says all scripture is inspired by God and Prophil for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training and righteousness. So the man of God maybe adequate and equipped for every good work. And I think that if Christians understood that that is where you land on, that is where you go for understanding how do we know what correction looks like? How do we know what training looks like? How do we know all these things? We know these things because God gave the to us in scripture. The other thing that bothered me was I don't know these guys and I don't know who else is around them and surrounding them. But I think that if we all sat together and we've done this, expressly with me in my life, we all sat together and opened up to scriptures and prayerfully consider what scripture said concerning a matter. I believe that God is faithful enough in his word to give us clarity as how we handle a matter. And because of the lack of solid biblical truth, I struggled to hear what they're saying. Because I don't know that it's more than just the group you were getting together on a banner that's quasi-Christian and not actually based on the unadulterated word of God. And that is the biggest problem because we don't have, we have nothing if we don't have God's standard. We just don't have a standard. Then there's, then you know what, you want to be a white supremacist? Go for it. There's no standard. You want to be black to power? Go for it. There's no standard. The reality for this conversation is if it's not based on truth, there is no conversation to have. There just isn't. Because there's no hope, there's no, there's never going to be some future strong generation or a strong man that's going to rise up. I hear him say it and I'm just like, what are you? A week, a class said nothing, man? Why don't you just be a strong man then? What are you talking about? There is such, I'm so tired of it because I consume so much media. I don't like that I have to be more prepared to do a podcast. I'm sorry. I don't like that. This sounds wrong to say. I don't like that I have to be more prepared to do a podcast so that I know what I'm saying is true. Then somebody who's got a much larger reach than me does. That's stupid. That's ridiculous. It doesn't make any sense. Look, I've read Heather McDonald. I understand the crime statistics. I know them. This is not new. You're not speaking new information. This is your solutions are feckless. There's nothing there because there wasn't the truth. There will be a strong leader one day. His name is Jesus Christ. One day he will rule and reign in power in a immediate way. Right now, he rules and reigns in heaven. He is still king. He has gifted the church with his word to answer these exact questions. What are we doing? What are we doing? I agree with you. I agree with you. I think at one point earlier on in the podcast, he stated or they said something about the hope that the nation will become a Christian nation again. For me, I look at that and say, I don't know if I'm personally concerned about the nation becoming a Christian nation again. I'm more concerned about the truth reigning and the gospel going forth in the lives of each person to a point that the walls start enacting the truths of God in the way they need to be enacted. Secondly, I think that since Christ rules and reigns in heaven, he will create a new heaven and a new earth and that we as Christians will call that home. This is not my home. I can't speak dogmatically that one day this will be a Christian nation again. I can clearly say that I know that I'm going to a place where God will call me home and I can call home with him. I guess where I struggle a little bit with the whole premise of even labeling something like this. Under a Christian banner is that it gives the idea that we as Christians all would align with something like this and I just don't. Well, obviously, Nathan, you're just informed by your black genetics to not be informed by this and that's why you just don't get it. You just don't get it, Nathan. You genetics don't allow you to get it. I'm aggressive. I'm mad and angry. I'm a frustrated person and eradicate me. That's what I do. Again, again, I do clarify, do we have a did not say he wanted to eradicate all black? He did not say that at all. I have to do what I say. He did not say that. He left enough out there for that feeling to build up by the end of the hour. I do love how somehow we in America are able to say the racial divide of black and white is so much, it's the worst racial divide ever. There's such this chronological snobbery. When he started talking about, I believe bloomers when they go to sleep, the thing that they can... Oh my gosh. That they dream about that they go to sleep happy about is because a black man at the Olympics will wrap himself in the American flag and put his hand over his heart and say that Pledge of Allegiance and they're not racist. I'm like, dude, are you just being an ass on purpose? Like really? That's just disgusting. You mean progressives? You don't mean bloomers. You don't mean a certain age of person that was born at a certain time. That's gross. That's not how my father thinks. Is that how your father thinks, Joel? We're just hearing about a bit a lot a bit of a daddy hurt here. Just already said that. That one again. But the chronological slavery, can I just say the divide between Jew and Greek when Paul mentions it is a far larger racial divide. Both in its strength, in its animosity, than the black and white divide is in this country. Even at this point, post Obama. Thanks Obama. Thanks Obama. Hey, did you see that beautiful building he built though? Thanks Obama. What do you build? That beautiful building. That presidential library or something that gorgeous, I'm just kidding. It literally looks like someone formed a piece of crap in the middle of a city is actually what it looks like. It's just a form third. It's just another piece of brutalist garbage is all this. It's not good. I'm just saying everyone's like, oh, our architecture's got all these romans, this room and stuff and this whole like, yeah, you know what? It's freaking awesome. It's freaking awesome. You know who's finding out how freaking awesome it is? All the Jack Wagens from all over the world that are coming in and watch soccer right now and they're like, holy crap, you get free bread when you go to Texas Roadhouse. Yeah, it's amazing. Oh my gosh, I went to Chile, they brought me chips and salsa and they didn't charge. Yeah, welcome to America. It's the best place in the world. And it'll be better when we get all the black people out of it. It'll be way better. Way better. I'm already packed all of these by the way. I'm sorry about the world cup people suffer. I can tell you that. It's so dumb. You think you'll have a home to come back to when you come back from vacation, but really? Oh, I didn't know you were buying house over there. Yeah, because like I want to be kicked out of a country, so I'm buying house over to be safe. Oh gosh. I just want to say, as a parent, you should make decisions that are good for your family. Absolutely. You should make wise decisions and those wise decisions will always be premised first upon what God calls your family to do and be. And they must always be called premised upon that. And for some of that, you will, some of you will be called in the mission work. And that will put your families in places that are not as safe as say, you know, world Indiana. Like they won't be as safe as those places. None of that matters because you're your safest place is to be following God in His Word and His will. That is, everyone's safest place is. I just want to say that right now. You do not need to live in a white, white enclave to think you're safe. You just don't. I'm sorry. I live in New Jersey. If anyone's a message should appeal in the racially motivated charge language that Joe Webman's message is, it should appeal to me because my me, my family for multiple generations has been supporting a whole structure of welfare economic garbage to the entire north of our state for generations. You're family too, Nathan. You're family too. Yep. I don't know 100%. His message should absolutely appeal to me. It doesn't because I what appeals to me is when you can speak clear biblical truth. Well, that's what appeals to me. You had you made a really interesting point, Joseph. When we were discussing this earlier, because I said, I said there's some, you know, there's some truth to, you know, in terms of the practicality of where you want to live. Like, do you want to live in Camden? Or do you want to live in Morristown to towns that are extremely close to each other that are pretty much polar opposite in terms of ways. If you're listening nationally, you've probably heard of Camden, New Jersey because it was one point of what it did get to hit the Merrill Capital of the US multiple years in the running. You want to know what ironically fixed it? Drugs police police police fixed it from being the murder capital state police. They actually brought it under state police control, not local police state police. Oh yeah, I remember though. For all of those of you who are like, Oh, get rid of the police. Shut the heck up. You're more on. Go ahead, Jesse. But anyway, but the police are targeting black community, Joseph. Well, the police do tend to go where the crime is. We do know the crime statistics. That doesn't mean all black people are a problem. But he even said Joel even said that it wasn't all black people. Clarence Thomas and Thomas Soul are okay. The two. Both of us, both of those men were okay. I wish I could get his cadence and voice right. But gosh darned his voice and I may. But what you were saying, Justin is you said, well, if you want to wear, if you want to live where white people are, where would you would live in pitman, which is where, which is where you have live in. And pitman is. What? Yes, correct. Good. What? It's my, it's my mailing address. I'm actually from Glassboro, but yes. Yeah, you have. That's what I mean. You're like, you have live in it. Pitman mailing address glass, glass, Texas. Good. But you say, you'd say if you wanted to live around white people, you'd live in pitman, which is absolutely true. There's a ton of young white people living in pitman. But you know what pitman is? Gay. It is extremely gay. They took down all of the Memorial Day Soldiers and they put up gay stuff. You know what the church all? Not all. No, no, no. They took down just across the main street in pitman, which is basically if you have, if you live in a place where there is like a beautiful town where people like to visit all the boutiques, that's what Main Street in pitman is. Just in that section, they took down all of the dead soldiers that gave their lives for the country and put up the MC Escher mushroom hallucinogenic nightmare that is the pride flag in all the little light posts. They took down the dead soldiers. They left them up and going down the rest of Main Street, they left them up. But just over the main section where they shop, they put up the gay pride flag. And and the first Baptist, is it first Baptist? Yes. Ironically in this town, the Baptist Church is the insane one. One of the insane ones. But it is right there on the main strip and it fully supports and hosts and pays for and donates to all of the woke gay crap that happens. Not just that. They house the children's portion of the gay fest that they had last Saturday as housed by the Baptist Church, where you can find all of the resources to indoctrinate your child into intense evil deviancy. In the basement of first Baptist, I'm just kidding, I don't know if it was a basement. Everywhere. But it was probably in the basement. Probably out there as well. So here you here is where it all kind of breaks down for me. The progressive ideology is the thing that drives these things. For me, I believe that the progressive ideology destroyed the Black family and destroyed the Black culture in America. I believe that progressive white liberals are a huge source of evil. I don't want to live in that town. I've stated it multiple times. My wife when we were looking for a house would show me a picture of a house in that town. I said, I never will allow my taxes to support the people in that town, never ever. And they're white. Justice, you're thinking it's New Jersey. How why could they be? I'm telling you, there are a total of approximately five Black families in the entire town. For now, they've moved out. Because of where you are, the town I didn't necessarily count you, you're close to nothing. Glassboro. I know. But this is what you need to understand. This is what you need to understand. It's ideology that matters. Not to melancholy. It's ideology. I have visited wonderful Cuban communities in Florida. Not rich ones, poor ones. I would rather live there than in the very nice white town of Pittman, New Jersey. Because the ideology matters. That's what matters. Yep. Thanks, Jesse. The power of the power of the gospel. Working in and through people's lives is what makes me want to I would move if I can move into a compound with my church, I would. Because my church is glorious. My church is full of gospel-filled people. And gospel-filled people are a force to be reckoned with. And that is who that is. Those are the types of people I want to be around. I don't want to be around. I don't even want to be around fake conservatives. Like I don't want to be around those people. I want to be around my people. I want to be around Christians. They get it. I posted on Twitter. I posted on Twitter. He really should monitor my Twitter post. I need some accountability there. But I was reading Virgil Walker posted. I think it was about the whole Ogden conference thing. But he posted an article and I listened to it. I thought that it made a decent bit of sense. But I just posted on access that I tagged Virgil and I said, so I just had a question for the new Christian right. Is Virgil going back? Or does he get to stay to stay to like, where's the line? The this is why this is why you go to first Peter 2.9 and you start talking about Ethnocengenus in the right way. That's what you have to do. And if you don't start there, you start talking like any other humanist socialist about things that God has made. And that's the problem. Joel Webin in this in this conversation, Joel Webin's God was just not sovereign enough. He just wasn't sovereign enough. Because if Joel Webin's God was sovereign enough, he has a different discussion on this podcast. He just does. Not just this podcast, but the other podcast that we've also done a whole podcast episode on. And I know Joel will never hear this. But I pray that if he does, he does not do a video response because I will not, I cannot stand his voice. I truly, I know I said it once already. I won't, I just don't think I will listen to it. If you could just text us or message us your thoughts, that's fine. If that's what you want to do, I just can't listen. I'm surprised at people. Why don't you just, why don't you just, why don't you just, you know, come on, you know what, you come on our little podcast. That way, no one will actually hear what you say and you'll be safe. And you can come on our little podcast. And use a voice changer that makes you sound like a man. We won't even, we won't even your name in the podcast. God, they've done all that. All in the video. I'm thinking back to, I'm thinking back to when we used to watch these shows where like the person would be black now. And we're talking that like, yeah, I, I saw that could get that who's the man behind the mask. It's Joe Webman. Honestly, I feel like Joe has a mask in voice. It just, there's an oozing of, there's an oozing of, I think he used the word arrogance earlier. Yeah, there's just an oozing of, schwar. It's like, it's like, it's like when, it's like when, I'm trying to think of who, who would best describe it. It's like when, who's just schwarming? I mean, like, mom Donnie's schwarming, but he talks differently and he's obviously gay. The, I think Joe Webman, I think it's a very feminine way of speaking. He turns his words up. He, he, he's his cadence is, is slow and deliberate. Please do not ever call Joe Webman feminine. He is very, he will be very upset about that. And he uses his tone to manipulate his listeners. And as long as they're white, that's okay. Well, if you wear a tie on his program, you're smarter. So that's key. Oh my gosh. Don't even get me started on the whole IQ discussion. We don't have time for any of that. Gosh dang IQ. Well, let me tell you, here's, here's how you can know you have a high IQ. I want you to know. And you can just google this because there's studies everywhere. Study after study after study. That when your voice sounds like that and you wear a tie, it's because you're not a serious person. Can I get feedback on my Joe Webman impression? Was that like good that I did an okay job? I felt like that actually landed. I find that you are very good at impressions, especially when you're doing cadence. Like there's just like, you know, when you're trying to sound exactly like someone, it can be harder. But when you do cadence and rhythm, your, your, your timings are very good at impressions. Okay. All right. Well, if anybody leaves an iTunes review and just mentions whether or not I did an occasional impression, I will send you a sticker pack. Nobody, we have been recording. We've been recording for an hour and 20 minutes. No one will hear that, but I promise you. If you're still here, I am currently wearing our brand new America 252.50 shirt for $20.26. You can get yours now at carpefeade.com slash shop. Carpefeade.com shop. And we've already spelled it. We've already spelled it for you once this show. But we'll do it again. Carpefeade.com. Click on shop. You can get the American 250 shirt for $20.26. 2026 because 2026 is the 250 that anniversary of America. It's a semi. Hold on. What's it called? It's a semi. Oh, semi. Quince and tenio has semi. Quince and tenio. Nathan, do you have any thoughts to wrap up? I feel like I talked over you the whole time and I feel bad about that. No, I will, I will say typically when I say I think almost every time I'm in one area, pick up a Bible and read it and understand it because there's a lot in the name of Christ being said that doesn't quite match up with what scripture says. So if I had anything to say, I would say that it will help you filter what is truth and what's not truth. It will help you not be baited or drawn to things just because they sound right or they're set in a certain way or there are statistics put out there that may be factual or not factual or that have any grounds to them. So pick up your Bible, read your Bible, understand your Bible and live out the truth, live it in the truth, live out the truth in your daily life and with those around you, it's kind of what I would say to end on this. I would much have, I would, it must be 12, 20 in the morning or something. I would much rather have people read their Bible and be able to suss out truth from lies than have to dive through empirical studies on jury bias. Like I had to do. The ades are like, did you find this? I didn't find this. What did you find? I found this. And it's like, well, what are we using? Just every major AI search, deep search that we can possibly use. All the ones you have to pay for money, real dollars, studies must have been one of those Nazi books. Don't do it. Oh my gosh. We can't do it. We cannot do it. Someone starts to tell you that they might be a white supremacist and then they keep telling you that they're a white supremacist. If you give a bell to cook. Oh no. He's probably a Nazi. I'm sick. Like with Graham Platter's like, I didn't know what the symbol meant. Well, why don't you keep it on you? I don't know. It looks cool. Also, I'm a Nazi. Nazis could have not seen, dude. It helps me break those ladies. Do you know how many children I get with this? I've got you all that weird sight that I'm on? Kids love it. Oh my gosh. I'm sorry. I just want to say this. I don't think Joe Webman is a Nazi. I don't think the guys at Ogden are Nazis. I don't think they're Nazis. I think they have found a great way to harness the power of social media for what they do it for. And I got to tell you, I really wanted to buy some of those really cool beef sticks. And then I found out that it wasn't just an Instagram ad that that Joe Webman advertises for them. And now I don't want to buy beef sticks anymore. That sucks. That just sucks, man. Although I might still use Nicknack, even though Joe Webman is a sponsor to him. I might still use Nicknack. I don't know. I'm on defense. I'm thinking of it. That's okay. You know, you try some. And you know, if you feel like it's worth the investment, you know, it is still a small family. You know, it's not their fault. I hear they accept returns. If it's only half a half absorbed. I've never heard of returning these half-years laws that just back to you. He didn't beat my standard. I didn't get a good enough hit after the first 15 minutes. So I just took it out and put it back in the box. I don't want to be here anymore. Oh my gosh. And if every episode dear Christian, we like to tell you, we hope you this day would seize the faith.