In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity: Dr. Dan Samms on Christian Federalism

 Welcome to another episode of the Carpefeide Podcast where if the shoe fits you wear it and if the truth hurts you bear it. I am Justin Gruber and I am Jesse Gruber and today we hope you will seize the faith. Hey everybody, welcome. You son of a... You fuck my introduction. Hey everybody, welcome to the Carpefeide Podcast. How's it going, Jesse? I don't know what you say after that. It's going great. Usually the episode number... Welcome to episode 239 of the Carpefeide 35. Yes. I'm doing great, Jesse. It's good to have you here tonight in the basement with me together, touching, sweating. It's great. We love it. Two dudes in a basement. That's where we'll stop. We're going to draw the line. Just because technology is so fun, we're going to dive right into what we're doing tonight because you have no idea how many times we have started this podcast. We have a special guest tonight who has written a book on an excellent topic. And if I might say so, although there are many books out on this topic, this book is the best. And I believe Donald Trump agrees. Yes, it is. It is the best book that there is on this topic that we are about to introduce to you today. Thank you, Mr. President. I'm glad that we had that reading endorsement. So our guest tonight is the good doctor Dan Sands. Dan, how are you? I'm doing good, brothers. Good to be with you. Good to have technology working now. But yeah, we're feeling very blessed. The Lord, is it works? And cool things are happening. And I just got word right before we got on here that since 2024, immigration from Muslim countries is down 96%. So I'm like, that's a win. I'm a happy man for that. So good times. What? What happened in the years before 2024? I guess what happened in 2024? It's a dramatically decrease. I don't remember what I was doing in 2024. I'm going to be honest with you. Well, it's 2026. It's the midterm elections. Oh. Oh. Oh, Joe Biden. No, in 2024. In 2024, a new president. Yeah. It's almost like maybe we curved down on some immigration. Yeah, it's funny. Oh, that immigration. And a lot of it was Islamic. That's interesting. Anyway, Dan, that's good news. Well, please, please go after that. Yeah. We're still going to have to crusade in our own country. We can help many others, but it'll be easier than it would have been otherwise. Yes. Yes. We've got, we have two years. Guys, guys, guys, that's later in the book. Can you give it a second? Okay. Sure. Everybody calm down. Dan, you've written a book. Would you like to tell us the title of the book that you have written? Yeah. The book is called Christian Federalism, the founding vision and the road ahead. And it is about how our country was founded as a federation of Christian states. It was meant to be a Christian country. And so I go into how the First Amendment does not prevent state churches. It actually is there to protect them. And I go into some detail about that. How we just weren't going to have a federal denomination because we didn't want to get in the way of the state denominations. And then I go into some detail of the type of laws we had and said, guys, we can do that again. Back we can do it better this next time around. Amen. So we essentially use the founding vision as the pathway. We can say, all right, if our founding fathers did it this way, we can do it that way. We can prove a few things long, but build on that same foundation. Yes, and amen. And in your book, you actually say that the book, which is very consumable. It is not overly long. I don't know if some of you are equated with certain works on things like Christian nationalism, but they can become very long and arduous to read. That is not the case with with Dan's book at all. It is the only thing voluminous about the book is the amount of things it covers. But you actually highlighted that this book comes out of your dissertation. So how does one arrive at that particular topic, Christian federalism or the view of Christian nationalism? How does one arrive at that topic for a doctorate? What we need you to do, Dan, is explain to our listeners that we do know some smart people. There you go. And you know many people, much smarter than me. Yeah, so one of the things I was noticing is that this debate on Christian federalism, or on Christian nationalism, was going on. And I noticed that pundits and secularists were using the term Christian federalism, but none of my Christian nationalism that is, I didn't know any Christians that were using that term for ourselves initially. It was just like where did this come from? And they were speaking of it as if there's this movement and we're all organized. And I'm like, where did this come from? And certainly me is that so many of the descriptions sure sounded like me and yet they were trying to make it sound very scary. Like people here nationalists and they think national socialists, which isn't what a nationalist is. In fact, that's an imperialist, but that's a whole other thing. But I realized that then guys were writing on it and other than Stephen Wolf, who certainly writes a scholarly work. There wasn't a lot of scholarly writing about the topic coming from Christians. And there certainly wasn't a lot of academic analysis, but the sociologists were writing and essentially trying to dominate the narrative on Christian nationalism. When, by the way, sociology is a joke. It's not a real science. And in my study, I realized that like, I mean, on this topic specifically, like it is smoke and mirrors. You have a couple of guys, white head and parry, gorski that are being repeated often. But they actually didn't do a study on Christian nationalism. They pulled from a previous study retrofitted some things and they're like, well, yes, probably not. Christian nationalism. And then they did a qualitative study with just a handful of people. And cobbled together something with a lot of assumptions that just wasn't accurate. And what I ended up doing is saying, we need to have some scholarly work done on this. So I analyzed the critical sociologist who were using that term and compared that to Christian political theologies, including guys like Doug Wilson and Stephen Wolf that are not using the term Christian nationalist. And what it came down to is all the scary things that they're trying to say about us are not true. There are a couple of cookie ones out there, but by and large, Christians are faithful people doing faithful work. And I know some people are like, why don't I want to be associated with Christian nationalism because that sounds bad. And I'm like, what does it matter? Because the two criteria that the sociologist say make you a Christian nationalist is that if you are Bible believing and politically conservative. It's like if you have those two things, you are labeled a Christian nationalist. And then they try to lump you in with all these bad things. And so I'm like, listen, man, you can't distance yourself from Christian nationalist because they're actually talking about you. And so that was long story of how I got to it, but a lot is to deal with it academically, do some analysis and hopefully give us a platform for the book. Yeah, one of the things you actually say is the term that so many people have, you know, much like, you know, pagans make up things and then Christians say, oh, yeah, well, we're going to take that now. That the term Christian nationalism, at least as far as you're able to find was actually derived first by secular sociology. It wasn't actually a term that was coming from the church in any way. Yeah, at least in its modern use, I recognize that there is older use of the term, but as far as it's being used in the present era, it was the whole thing has been coined by sociologists seeking to critique us. And then you have faithful guys like Vodipachum and Douglas Wilson are like, well, I am a Christian and I love my nation. So technically, sure, I am that that wouldn't have chosen that terminology, but yeah, I'm a Christian naturalist and that I believe that a people should govern themselves and that those and that nations should be Christian done. Right. Yeah. And I feel like it's interesting because you look at those men and just because the term happened, they didn't really change anything about their ministry practices. Zero. Yeah. So it's like the stuff. Yeah. I mean, we're already doing we just kept on. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, because like before, one of the first books that I had read mainly because it was small, I think Tom Askel put out, it was basically a pamphlet on Christian nationalism. And he kind of said, you know, a similar thing to like, well, I'm a Christian and I want what's good for a nation. So like the term itself is in problematic. Like he was he was taken. What are you doing? Sorry. What are you doing? I touched the microphone. Sorry. I really stopped touching the microphone. How about you just focus on what you're saying? I wish I could. If people weren't touching my microphone. He's like our microphone. Feeble minds are easily distracted. But yeah, like so that so that that was helpful for me. He kind of took the boogeyman out of it. I'm like, yeah, this this this whole outrage thing is pretty dumb. Yeah, so that's a parallelism promises of Christian nationalism, right? I think was that that little booklet. I forget what his book that's called. Yeah, I can look up. It's good though. I have that. I have that one. I'm with you. He he takes a good. It has a very good take on it. Always always like Tom Askels takes. He's a good dude. Yeah, the the parals and promises of Christian nationalism. So you are on your journey at the time of writing your doctorate to become a doctor of which you now are a doctor. So I've been having this pain in my side. I don't know exactly what's causing it. I'm told that all doctors can heal people. So yeah, I was informed that I should see Jill Biden. I heard you also a doctor. Dr. Jill. The crazy thing is is that Dan's probably more qualified than so many doctors. I know being a nurse to actually help you with your side pain. It's funny because I was thinking like, you know, I know enough like emergency. You know, I can I can put a turn to get on. I can do through some chess seal on. I've got a couple of basic things that I can do for you. And so I'm like, hmm, I actually think yeah, I'm definitely more qualified than Jill. That's okay. Yeah, I know what Jill coming up with a turtle kid. I'll probably just show me the death. And I feel like we should not turn to get the abdomen. But other things. I don't think you have an actual nurse right there. You think you need I caught off major arterial flow. It's the rest of my day. You have to turn to get the habit. I don't know what you're saving. Guys just pack the wound pack the word. What are you doing? And this is how I got to walk on my hands. Oh my gosh. All right. So you're on this journey to become a doctor. You've made this journey. You had this large work. And you said. I feel like there's a lot in here. That would be effective in this large conversation that is now going on. Right about around Christian nationalism. So what made you try to take your your dissertations. You know, main idea and main thrust. And then boil it down into something that would be accessible for for the every man. Well, it was interesting because it came out of the dissertation defense. So one of my professors at the defense who was probably. Probably the most dispensational non reformed guy there. And I'm good dude though. Right. Love and death solid brother in Christ. And he gets done and he actually says this is great. This is objective and everything. He's like, but and I'll be real. He's like, I'm watching what's happening in the United Kingdom. It's being overrun by my homadins. And we need a plan. He's like, this is actually two objective. And so he signed off on it as an academic work because it that's what it was supposed to be. Like it. Right. But he's like, if you can handle the smoke, I actually think you're the guy to write a book. And I give us a plan. And so that's what I did. I wrote chapter one and sent it to some publishers. Got some good response initially. And then interestingly enough, ended up deciding to go a different direction with the publication. But I got enough good response and I'm like, well, yeah, it's going to be worth writing this thing. And we wrote it more as a plan. So the idea is to take some of the academic. And then I wrote a book that I wrote to the dissertation and used that more as a foundation. Very little of the dissertation work makes it over into this book. I mean, I have the foundation of that research. But this is a lot of fresh research, fresh content. There's maybe a chapter where I pull some stuff from the dissertation. But this is mostly fresh work to turn from saying, okay, now that we recognize that Christian nationalism is not a bad, scary, dangerous, racist, sexist thing. It's just historic Christianity. And then I said, all right, cool. How are we going to, how are we going to get back to what we're supposed to be? And, and not just back to it. How are we going to make it better? We're going to really do as Doug Wilson says, Christendom 2.0. And that's, that was the, that was the plan of the book. But it came out of that comment from my professor who, yeah, was encouraging in it. What, what was the reception with like the, is I don't know if there's a weird question to ask. If it is, you can just tell me, but like, what was the general reception to your dissertation on? I know we're not talking about your book yet, but we will. That's really cool. Like, you know, like, like, I think of, you know, like a big universe. Did you get your dissertation through Liberty or where did you do your dissertation? So like, you know, there's, I feel like Liberty is kind of like a fairly broad, fairly broad Christian university. So like how, you know, I think, I think you highlighted the kind of like almost like an unexpected response. But like, what was the general response from the people? Yeah. What a stupidly weird question. You're just, no, I'm disgusting. I'm disgusting. I'm just disgusting. I'm kidding. This is actually a great question because historically Liberty was, has been kind of built around a dispensationalist, pre-tribulational, pre-millennial approach to eschatology. And that was, that was a pretty strong stand that they were pretty strongly on that. They've softened on the dispensationalism. And, but what's interesting and, and I'll go somewhere during the dissertation, we're during the not just dissertation, my other scholarly work there. I thought about the fact that, you know, we're talking about eschatology here and all these guys think we're going to get raptured out and that things are going to get worse. And yet, this college, the probably world's largest Christian university, was started in the 70s by a dispensationalist who thought we were all going to get raptured out. What, that's post-millennial type of thinking. And, and here we are. Like we've, we've been able to improve a lot of things. In fact, the moral majority, the amoea had its flaws, but they brought us back from the brainguns and things. Right? And it was interesting to hear this professor who means, he's probably not post-mill, but he's like, well, you know, like if you love God, you're going to hate what's evil. And you're naturally going to fight for what's righteous, regardless of your eschatology. I'm like, well, yeah. So it's interesting at Liberty. Yes. Initially, I was going to try to, try to analyze political theology and kind of compare covenant theology and dispensationalism on it. And I had, I had, I had some pushback on that. I had a professor that it's like, well, if you're going to come out against dispensationalism, I'm not going to help you. And he wasn't a jerk, but he was just like, I'm not going to help you do that. And I had another guy that was just like, you know, I'm just not familiar enough with, with the political side of things. And so we, I found the right dissertation chair, Dr. Timothy Yance, who was just, he'd done his dissertation on a similar topic and just a great dude. And he's like, I'm going to help you get this through. And he helped me even hone down the topic. And I think I was, I eventually was just like, and what I want to do is be able to show that we're not a bunch of racists. Right. That, that, that it is righteous and good to be politically active for the cause of Christ. And then I'm like, I want to compare what these clowns are saying about us to what we actually believe. And it's like, there you go. That's where we need to go with this. And so I got a couple of readers in there there. But long and short of it is that, um, liberty, as long as it's within the bounds of orthodoxy, liberty is very gracious about scholarly work, at least in my experience. And it can genuinely like they want you to say within the lines of orthodoxy, but the pretty open to varying topics. And so in that sense, very open. And I think once they saw kind of the angle and what we were doing, they're like, oh, yeah, I think we need this. So I would say overall very, very welcoming to it. Now, I might have gotten a little bit too post mill in the book. And so you guys pray and I'll get fired from liberty for sounding to post mill. I didn't actually affirm post mill, but I recognize my sound like that. I was a post mill adjacent. I actually was, I actually found while you were highlighting. Perhaps they're more the vacious engagement in the political arena. I actually didn't feel like you were actually were like, toting any particular escalatologist, escalological line. That's good. They were just saying that I would tell them that they were, they were reading into the text. If they were just to say that. Yeah, it was like, don't do ice of Jesus on my book. So you're right. I was not trying to affirm any particular eschatology because part of my goal is for this to be useful for any, any faithful Christian. And not just in the US, even beyond that. So. I have a, I have another just kind of like follow up question to that before we get into kind of more content. So you, you are. Oh my gosh. I'm so never mind. I'm not going to comment on what's happening in the room. I'm just going to focus on this interview. Casting. Yeah, God. I was curious where your pastor's heart comes into. You trying to write the book. You're, you're also a pastor out there. You have a huge heart for the church. We love, you know, working with and partnering with people who have a huge heart for the church. So I'm curious where as we're writing this and as we're writing the book in particular, like where, where did you, where did you want to land with helping your congregation or even helping. I'd love to start there with your congregation, but also kind of the church at large on a kind of meta level. Oh, yeah. This is awesome questions, brother. Seriously, you're encouraging me even with the questions. So, um, yeah. So I think you probably noticed, by the way, I think you guys are taking the time to read. It's very kind of you. Um, so you notice I'm kind of torn the lines, not the right language for it. I'm, I'm bringing, I'm trying to bring scholarly work in there. But my pastor's heart leads me to write to the lay person. Like, I don't, I don't need this to be read by a bunch of ivory tower guys. Like I need people to be able to do this. And so, um, I've been teaching a lot of these things in my church and things like the section on, on destruction of idols. And that's, I mean, that's, that's stuff I, I preached sermons on that. It's not exactly words were words from my sermons, but I mean, I'm pulling from my sermon notes and, and putting stuff in there. Uh, so a lot of what I was looking at is how, how many of us we see what's happening in the UK. Or we, we were watching what was happening in the Biden administration as Christian organizations were being targeted and harassed and. And we're like, things are getting bad. And I don't know what, like, I need to do something. And I'm not quite sure what to do beyond what I'm already doing, right? I mean, a lot of us were in the point where I'm like, okay, like we're talking about people are really trying to do this. People are really trying to harm Christian Americans to any fight. Like show me where like I'm like, I don't want to like be all puffed up. But I'm like, hey, if that's what it takes, like I will go to war for the, for the sake of defending Christians. And so, but I'm like, oh, there's, there's no direction on that. There's a, so I'm like, I want to be able to equip people and like, what is it that you can actually do, right? You don't have a lot of money. You don't have a lot of whatever. And then you do. And so the pastor's heart comes in and then I wanted to be very specific about some of this is doing the basic stuff. And some of it's a couple of other things. But, you know, being a church matters, loving your wife, destroying the idols of your heart, actually have a direct impact on whether or not we're going to be invaded by Muslims. Right? Like that, this, this stuff that sounds like the, the basics is actually the really important stuff. Like, disciple your children go to get to church every Sunday and that helps you stay faithful to your wife and that helps you raise faithful, joyful kids who love Jesus. And then they're going to do, and then they think, oh, and by the way, if you're careful with your money and then you're multiplying and you're doing all of these things. And so I wanted to get really practical. And these various areas of, of course, family, church, economics and politics and give some very, very straightforward things that people can do. I mean, even like how to run for office because like, hey, I'm not going to probably get to be a congressman. I'm not planning on running for office anyway. Most people in my church, probably not in that situation. But I'm pretty confident me and the other pastors could get together. We could run a couple of guys for city council. We could take over city council. We're working on that right now. Right. So some of these things that like small, simple, practical things that you can do. They're actually very effective at the local level, which then kind of aggregates at the larger level, which is kind of where the federalist concept comes in. So, but yeah, that's what pastors heart is in that like we're going to talk to the individuals here to the pastors, to the families, to the locals and say, you can do this stuff. You don't, you don't need to get, you know, Republican party to do this for you. We don't even need those clowns at the time. There was a, I just, this question just popped out of my head. I'm scared to say it now. Me too. You, you start by framing the discussion. So like for all of you that you, you all need to get the book and you want to read it. It is, it is not overwhelming. We're talking about book that's 250 pages ish. It's 259. 259. So it's not overwhelming. You can listen to the, you could listen to it. If you have a PDF reader, you can listen to it as a PDF copy, relatively easy. It's, it's great. So you need to get it. You need to read it. But you set this book up where you build from the basis of what has eroded the, the concepts that have come into a road. So you can see the book of what our culture set out to be in our own nation, you know, as a, as a Christian nation, 250 years ago. And, and this book builds through the first six chapters to the point where our options are to establish the Christian, you know, bull work or to descend into some level of the, basically, as you're pulling on these big civilization eroding ideas that have crept in through, you know, just general secular thought. You hit, you hit, you hit, or so, you hit marks, you, you attack the reality of Islam coming in. I just wanted to point out you didn't do a lot of attacking the Jews. I don't know if you know this. You were actually supposed to attack the Jews. Did you not know this? Here's the funny thing. It's funny because in real life, I do all the time. It is funny because if we can speak plainly on that without getting us, you know, shot, there's nothing to cancel your advantage. There's nothing to cancel. I'm not worried about the side. I'm not so worried about getting canceled. So, here's what I will say. Our immediate existential threat is the Muhammadans. Right. They are, they are the overt existential threat. And that has been the case for a long time. Right. Actually, I need to be careful to say that because it's been the case for, you know, a lot of years since the seventh century. The reality is, after the fall of the Ottomans, the back the wrong horse in World War I, the reality is like Islam kind of felt like they can't make stuff. Someone has supported them and made something happen. Right. Like these are people who pound rocks together. Like they, I want to be this, I want to be honest here. But like when you're, when your religious system involves in breeding and child marriage, you are going to end up with dumber people. And we can actually look at the data. Like they're, they're, they're talking like in the technical sense of the word that they can lodge measure. And they're also retarded in the colloquial sense of the word. Yes, both, they fit both categories. Recognizing that though, they're the overt immediate existential threat. But if we can be really straightforward. The Talmudic Judaism wants for nations to be destroyed. Right. It is built into their language. And if we're looking at what they acknowledge, they are trying to do. They're, they're, they're doing great evil. I don't think that there are any less of a threat. They're just less of an immediate existential threat. But they're absolutely doing, and I always like to say the Talmudists. Right. Because I mean, that's, that's, it is a wicked belief system just like Islam is. Right. I have no concern with, with somebody's skin tone or their history because Christ redeems everybody. But, and if you believe, if you believe the Quran, or you believe the Talmud, you believe in wicked things that are dangerous. So, yes. I always say, I always say I, I know some Talmudic Jews and they don't, they don't, I don't feel threatened. I don't know. Like physically, you don't feel like, even when they get angry, I'm like, dude, you're cute little, you're cute little things. You're curly keys, pop it up and down. I'm just about that. Right. But like, with that, with what I see it, I actually, ironically, I just know bad Muslims. I know Muslims that don't actually know their, their, their holy teachings. Yeah. So I don't know a lot of Muslims that actually get ardently angry. I'm not in that particular part of New Jersey where they live and rule. Yeah. Yeah. By the way, by the way, what a scary phrase. We're talking about the dangerous Muslims and we're, I'm not in that part of New Jersey. They don't matter. Like, how is that? Yeah. Yeah. It's a tiny state. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's very similar in Islam as well as in Talmudism. And I, I do say I like to say Muhammadists and Talmudists. Right. Because I think it helps differentiate. It's long story in my, I say, Muhammad is instead of Islamist. But, right. And we would say this about virtually any religion. You have people that are less attuned to it or that focus in on certain aspects of it. Right. And like other religions don't have a cohesive, perfectly formed document that like we have in the Bible. Right. There's plenty of nice, rich, wonderful, charitable things in the Talmud. And there's wicked things in the Talmud. And you can read the Quran and have the same kind of thing. And so admittedly, people are drawn to the things that are in their religion that they want to be drawn to. And so that's why I mean, not too long ago, sharing the gospel with Mo. And in real, I still later, he was bombid. But I mean, we had a great conversation. Nice guy. We're talking about concerns about the culture. And I mean, I share the, and I realize he's, you know, Muhammad and not share the gospel. He's a nice guy. Right. I'm not too worried about him. And the same way, like I mean, I Jewish people that I interact with are very nice. They believe in the Talmud. And hopefully have not accepted some of those darker things that are in the Talmud. But I recognize that those things are there just like those things are in the Quran and they're in different parts of Hindu teaching. And yeah, because those are demonic. All of them are demonic religions. And so I don't raise any of them up and say, well, this guy is the worst of all of them. Well, they're all anti Christ. They have all set themselves up against God. And that's bad. And I want them to come to repentance. And until they do, I'm going to be very careful. One of them is particularly existential threat to us right now, but all of them are bad. So don't worry. I equally don't like a lot of religions. I just talked about one. We just don't we just don't like people that follow false gods. Like all of that. All of that is threatening in a way. Yeah. Yeah. I just found I guess for me, what was what was interesting to kind of acknowledge was that most of the central frameworks that have taken hold that are so anti that are so attacking. That's not straight that are so on the offense against biblical Christianity. They they actually like when I started when I was like listen, I'm going through your book and I'm listening. I'm not so. None of these these aren't the like I know we're supposed to hate the Jews or whatever, whatever what's his face says. But none of these like none of these came from or like are in any way what I would associate with Jews yet are absolutely what I associate with the very real intrinsic threats to our culture in the in this immediate way. Yeah. So whether whether it be just you know general materialism or or the economic structure of of you know Marx's socialism communism like these are they're so in front of us like they're imminent. We what we don't have is a lot of Talmudic senators, you know I thought I tell Moody congressman we have a ton of of Muhammadin senators and congressmen and openly Marxist and openly socialist public servants that that that are taking and seizing power in real ways. And I'm just it was just something that kind of hit me. I just didn't I just didn't know if you didn't realize that if you're going to write about Christian nationalism and I speak about Jews. I just didn't know if you knew that. But I will say don't don't don't hear me defending the those because I know the kind of guys were thinking of and I'm like is we just wanted particularly that I'm like yeah wouldn't want to defend him. But I would say that like indeed like at a time when things are pretty tricky for our nation. We sure seem to be given a lot of money to Israel. And we might not have very many Talmudic senators, but we sure have a whole lot that are getting money from APEC. And I'm like yeah so I would say there's still a problem there. Admittedly it's a little different. It's kind of like well do I am I'm more worried about the banker. I didn't even realize this illustration is going to come off anti-Semitic but here we go. I'm not worried about the banker who is who is who is wrecking our financial institution. Where am I worried about the guy who's who's in my house with a gun right. Like and I were like I need to deal with the existential threat first right. It doesn't mean there's not another problem but I think one of the issues in this big discussion around you know who's it fault under this well the biggest issue is that people have not been following Christ right. That is that is that is so we restore the gospel we start functioning as Christians it's funny God God takes care of the mess for us when we do that right not that we're sitting around passive in it. But I do think there's something like it is not right that billions of dollars is going to Israel like we we are required to give three point three billion dollars a year that's the minimum by law we're allowed to give nearly nearly every state what is it something like 38 out of 50 states. If you refuse to use Israeli investments you're you're not allowed to be hired by that state like those things are not okay right and I can say that and still say like yeah but I'm I'm still more concerned about the Muhammad is immediately we still need to fix that problem like we got a lot of money going to some bad things I want to stop that. I don't care if it's a I think it's more concerning I don't know if this this rings true I don't really I didn't really want to talk about the Jesus thought it was well. Do you realize that it's not funny because like we're so emphatic like I'm not why say we're but like we're so emphatic that like we can deal with the with the with the curly cute Jews later like I'm so emphatic about this like there are so many more things like I don't understand why someone is built a whole platform off of if you're a Christian it's the Jews like it's always the Jews everything is the Jews I'm like why what like seriously I know of a Shabbat House in the university section near the university that's in our town like you know what they don't do anything they don't do anything they have kids they have like 10 people over to pray they're like that's not the problem what are you talking about anyway but like yeah I find it interesting the money thing I'm one of the things that that the current the current Israel administration wants to do is say we don't we don't want your money anymore. Which is to say they want to be able to say we're going to go we're going to go whatever do whatever we want to do and not have to be the holding to you anymore was kind of one of the things that's very interesting that I find if I'm interesting they're like look keep your money we're now going to listen to you when you say you can't do this don't bomb there don't invade there don't let that that's kind of ironic but anyway to the end of there not to your awesome book. I'm just curious why you don't call them Muhammadans I feel like I feel like that would be kind of fun that does sound fun then it sounds too cool I don't want it. Okay are you this is going to be this is going to be a way of topic are you familiar so you know the inkling what do you do it. Yeah yeah yeah so one of the like he he was an author as well but he wrote more supernatural kind of throughout like genre was Charles Williams who was part of the inklings with with Tolkien and CS Lewis and in one of his he dealt he wrote almost like almost like you would think of Frank ready writing like very super natural he kind of Christian books. He has a book that deals with this particular middle eastern connection he refers to a lot of the middle eastern in the book it's very old your first of them is the haji. Oh which was very interesting when he's talking about somebody specifically from Islam he calls them Muhammadans yeah yeah so it's just very interesting just vernacular change but the same idea was there interesting because there is a reason for that that that was what we historically called them right. And you'll notice that one of the one of the tricks that the the Islamist the Muhammadans do is the try to say well you know Islam means to submit and so if you're submitting and they'll do this so they like you believe in submitting to God you're you're really you're really a Muslim right like and it's like well no I'm not or they're like they'll read where it says Jesus like like bow down and like see that's like he was a he was a Muslim because he bowed down like we did I'm like. This is really dumb like this is really really dumb argument but since you're dumb and I don't I'm tired of being nice to it I'm like since you're that dumb and you're making dumb arguments like that I'm going to call you a Muhammadan so that I don't have to deal with that dumb argument because yeah I mean I know that sounds petty but it's like we waste a lot of time dealing with really dumb stuff from them like I'm serious about that and I can cut off a lot of waste in time there and go right to just like. You're mom it saves us a little something. I feel that that is that is good that is a good use of linguistics if I were to say so myself it's a good. Any any time you can sound like like an ankle you're doing a good thing. Oh yeah absolutely absolutely in the book you you you hit these major ideas that crept in philosophically and religiously that that are our clear and present danger. To quote Tom clansies book of the same title. That are clear and present danger in America you then move to what's our founding really was all about and this is just something that we we love to talk about the founding of our nation. You see the founding of America as inherently and it's to end ostensibly Christian in its founding. What what what were some of the most convincing historical anecdotes or writings that you found that that really kind of bring that to light. I know you incorporated many things in the book there were a bunch of deists Stan. Well one of the things actually it's a good segue in because I know they throw a right they were all deists we only had one self proclaimed deist that was that was at constitutional convention and it was Benjamin Franklin. And he was not an open and you let him talk. The interesting thing about him too is that he wasn't a very good deist he's the guy who calls for prayer like they don't end up having the prayer that he calls for but he's the guy so I'm like that's not very deist of a guy later on he kind of says yeah and I'm not really a deist. 50 of the 55 delegates at the at the Constitution convention were were members of confessional churches right which meant they would have had to hold to that confession of faith to be members so overwhelmingly we're dealing with guys who we should expect to be solid Christians right. You've got guys like John Adams that probably was unitarian so probably not a faithful in theologically but even he invokes the Trinity later on so it's like the times he sounds more Christian than you would think right Thomas Jefferson and this is where it gets us more into these Thomas Jefferson who is probably actually the most liberal of all of them when it comes to theological liberalism. He actually went home to Virginia and now he was not in the constitutional convention he was not a delegate just to be really clear but we consider him a founding father right for declaration of independence all that kind of stuff. He actually passed he actually promoted past laws in Virginia protecting the Sabbath specifically the Christian Sabbath right so like even these guys that they try to paint as like outside and even I can't I would say he's not a faithful brother in Christ but even he is so so. But even he is so steeped in Christianity and he's passing Christian laws so like that that argument about like they're all these one is false but even the ones who are the closest to deism are actually actively passing Christian laws right so even your least Christian still believed in passing Christian laws right so that's all what it is but some of the things that I cite specifically course in the the decoration of independence there is an affirmation of the creator and. They're very clearly referring to the Christian God when you're talking about a creator you're not talking about some kind of God you are talking about God creation but the thing that I'd love to bring up that gets lost over so often the declaration of independence doesn't actually make us a nation right declaration of independence establishes our effort to be independent right we're saying i'm independent we're it's in the name right right in the name right I didn't see it I declared it. The declared right. Right we England does not accept our independence right the crown does not accept our independence and so they attack us so we ever wore though that war ends with the treaty of Paris and I would argue that the treaty of Paris is what fully and officially makes us an independent country that document begins with the phrase in the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity. I'm sure he you are there is no other religion that affirms the Trinity but Christianity and so you have the actual document that fully and finally establishes us as an independent country invokes the triune God right quite literally. That makes us a Christian foundation right that's ironically not even ironically that's the thing that everybody's agreeing on right that's that's how England and the United States can say all right we're we're passing as brothers in Christ here think that's really cool couple of other things though 12 of the 13 states were explicitly Christ of states really all 13 the 12 of the 13 had essentially established denominations right you actually in and actually. James Beard's work king of kings which I highly recommend he actually goes a little bit more into you actually had to hold to a specific faithful evangelical confession of faith in order to hold office in those states so what we have this is where the Christian federalism thing comes in it was the states that were so Christian now at the federal level we're certainly Christian right but because the states but we're so independently individually Christian we didn't need to have a denomination of the federal level in fact we didn't. We didn't want to create what if we have got Baptist at the federal level and you get Presbyterians here and what we didn't want to mess up that whole thing so it's a those things that go to an evidence that we were Christian nation and of course the Holy Trinity case in the 1800s the Supreme Court officially declares us they're like and they essentially say in the majority opinion duh they cite all of our history and all of our and they're like look at all this stuff guys were a Christian nation done like. Duh and so yeah that's the thing I'm like I mean that is that is quite literally. I mean the Supreme Court agrees so I mean like this and that kind of thing still happened yeah yeah so that there's several other things I point to but those the the the treaty of Paris the invocation of the creator and the individual state constitutions and then I actually point to the first amendment as an afferent. So I think that's the information of our Christian status because it's protecting those state churches so yeah I feel longer but those are the main ones I like it's the quick ones. Yeah I didn't want you to give the whole chapter away it's good you guys got to get it to read it whenever this you wet your appetite whenever we talk about this and like founding documents and like all that stuff it makes me so angry that we are just so far from even what we were and like we can't like we have no recourse to any of the things that we can't do. Access that again other than to rebuild to demolish and build back up on truth and righteousness like that is that is our task like that is what we have now like we can't go back in time to experience what that was like like you know what I mean like there's cute little reenactments and stuff but you can't reenact that you know what I mean like the like I can't imagine a culture I can't imagine a state of New Jersey. That would have a religious test or office you know what I mean like it's so unfathomable to me and they did and they did and it's like now we've never met and you read John Stockton in his original words and you're like oh you know this guy was like whole heartedly ardently, passionately Christian. Right. And I mean it's yeah the founding stuff was fantastic I actually really loved that particular point that Jefferson wrote the Sabbath laws he actually wrote down what would happen to you if you broke the Sabbath right that's it that would be a horrible that is a horribly involved against right like that would be a very very that's like that's like that it's like the Muslims that don't know the Quran that that's a bad dissed to write a law like that. The fact that Jefferson continually used the Bible as the standard of measure for education education should be the standard of measure is the Bible right like yeah it was it was great it was a great point as the kind of the I love the way you did it because you kind of use it as the counter the antithesis right of all of these Russoian Marxist ideas that are happening antithesis is what our nation was founded upon is ardently, biblically, confessionally Christian which was fantastic you did a great job and honestly if you don't get this book I don't I can't help you before I ask a question that I think we're doing what we can so that you can get the book like like we're trying to help everyone understand that like this is like really important like I was I was talking to some guys after after our men's group tonight and they're like yeah I'm just kind of like literally a blank slate on the topic I'm like whoa stop it it's not it's not God but it is pretty important especially where we live. Yeah, that's what I said like you guys know that we started a podcast as extra material specifically for you right in our church like we did this specifically so that we could have cultural specific political Christian conversations for the sake of our church primarily first and foremost anyway that's either here or there. There's like I definitely want to I have a I have a good question to kind of move us towards some of the escapology but I first wanted to set up you you you take a second to actually talk about what it looks like to have law. Somebody more questions you have. I have no no. Yes, you have you you talk about law like what Joel Weven did with Nick Fuentes it's like that. Welcome to 10 hours with Dan Sands welcome to the 72nd part of our interview of Dan Sands tonight we're talking about the Jews. No, the you you actually set up to you say you don't insubstantically say that they are Christian but there are two views on the law to camps on the law. Can you maybe just lightly articulate them we we actually had a we actually why why do I blank on names Jesse go. We have on Luke Saint thank you we had Luke Saint on to talk about the enemy and you actually mention a version of the enemy and you can trust that with another view so I'll talk to you. Yeah, this is good so I would even go maybe there's probably three views but functionally probably there should only be two you have the what I would call the the natural law Christian nationalists. Who say we we need to make laws that honor God but the natural law guys would say we should be able to look to natural order and make laws based on that right. And that's more the the Stephen Wolf Christian nationalism and that's tempered by scripture to be clear but those natural law guys have a little bit more wiggle room on some of those things. Whereas the what I call positive law Christian nationalists are the more general equity, the animus would look at the mosaic code as it related to civil law and they would say this should be our case law. It should be our template and that we should look to apply this where we're at and yeah we're going to have to adapt it for our you know where we know where we are and what we're doing. Things are going to look different than they did in ancient Israel but the idea is we want to we want to we want to be able to look to God's on God made the perfect set of laws for a civil society. Then I should be able to see if I want to make a law I should be able to see an equivalent of that in there is that would be kind of the the case law the general equity the animus view. I would argue that there's actually a third and I think they're wrong. I think you can make a case for both the natural law and the positive law I think the positive laws is a better way to go about it. But you recognize all that and then you can look to these guys who are like well I don't actually think we should have Christian laws and I'm like what? They're like it just needs to be neutral man like we can't we can't be Christians pushing our view because if we do that well then well then the Muslims are going to push their view like I got news for you sucker they're going to push their view no matter what. How many times we hear this actually JD Greer just wrote some absolute swill on this topic like I was he was terrible. I say that as the person who's studied this I'm like he was wrong about all this but the argument that they keep bringing up is like well if we make a law against this well then maybe if the gaze get in charge they'll make a law against us I'm like I got news for you suckers they already did that they already like they've already pushed that so like they're like it's not like everybody's agreed to be neutral here you're the only one agreeing to be neutral and when you do that you're going to lose. And so yeah so I think you can make a case for the natural law play or the positive law approach but what I call the Christian influence approach sadly has been the default case for most evangelicalism these last maybe 50 years and it's it's it's literally getting people killed. Yeah like children are being mutilated babies are being murdered Christians are being persecuted even even the sword that our nation is supposed to wield to defend the innocent there are Christians that are being persecuted in other parts of the world we absolutely should take up the sword to defend them and we're not because we have we have allowed the public square to be treated as a neutral ground by Christians while the enemies take it over and use it for them. So yeah there's a great quote in Raymond Iberheen's sword and cimitar and he says that he essentially makes the case that kind of most part Christians have always been stronger but a sword that remains in its sheath will always lose to a cimitar that is unsheathed and being wielded unlike yeah and that's what mean like our our enemies are actually not that strong but if we keep sitting around and not you're not going to be able to do that. So we're using the force that God has provided for us we will lose ultimately we won't lose but yeah we're going to have some hard times if we don't step up so yeah I'll set it in the question. Yeah so it can get worse and we would have to fight through more if we continue down that path. Indeed. And I'm always you'd be at this great point about neutrality in the book but the reality of the the Bible is and the biblical framework for any Christian is there is no such thing as neutrality there is no such thing God's paradigm is you are either glorifying me or you are my enemy that is God's paradigm. And for a Christian that must be the reality to to think you can have some sort of neutral pluralistic idea concept is not possible in God's biblical framework it doesn't it doesn't exist in his economy. So you know you see the answer that question I got time for like six more questions six. Seven six. That being said well done thank you for being succinct. You then highlight the reality that inside of what what you communicate as a confessional Baptist reform perspective there hasn't been much laid down inside of this Christian nationalist kind of debate it happens to be much more coming from a Presbyterian vein of a post millennial view. And as you are articulating this you're coming at it with a certain theological bent one that we ourselves are in. And we perhaps why we're able to so heartily recommend this book it's not for just to be clear it is not for it's not specifically for confessional Baptist reformed people it's for literally everyone but the reality is there hasn't been much work done in that space. It they're not the loudest voices in this in this particular discussion why did you feel that particular view needed to be highlighted or why did it what that's not the right question why did you feel that it was good for a defense to be made so so that we had a platform and a voice to stand on biblically from our our theological perspective. Yeah so face in fact brothers Presbyterians do a lot of good theology right I might disagree with them on the baby sprinkling even though I think they have a point I still disagree with them right but the Presbyterians have done a lot of good theology and they have they've held the line on some important things but the reality is most Christians in America are some flavor of Baptist right you've got you do your non denominational or your southern Baptist. This or whatever the there is a wider grouping right you think about like the Presbyterians still pay attention to the southern Baptist convention because they recognize that it's they're the big dogs and and it affects things when when there is a resolution at the southern Baptist convention whatever it matters. It's the largest economical action in the entire nation just not the biggest and one of the things I've noticed is so many people jump to assuming that if you believe in the idea of the Christian nation well then that's just some Presbyterian idea of related infant baptism and I mean I've because I've heard people say this and coming at it from from a from a reformed Baptist perspective hopefully allows us to jump in here and say listen guys like this is not just a Presbyterian concept this is not just something that that John Knox came up with one day right this is a biblical idea that we should all be in agreement with and my hope is that the book catches a wider audience that the Presbyterians haven't been able to now I have a smaller platform than those Presbyterians do so so we'll see but hey I'm on the Carpefeade podcast right back so yeah I expect my book is going to be read by tens of Christians every way I'm going to hope and pray for far more than tens but I will say like the reality is just as you most recently spent some time interacting with some Presbyterians on their large platform by the way you can check out Dan Sam's interview on the Wow I'm so sorry Gabe I apologize that I'm not Oh my god and hopefully any day now my interview on cross-pilot dick will come out so well right so you definitely gonna want to know that as soon as since I've told people that it's coming out now it feels like the guy who's like yeah I have a girlfriend she lives in Can't see But but just as you were I mean we count these men as friends we're able to interact and communicate with them specifically because The reality is if you're going to be a faithful Christian you're going to be doing this type of work you're gonna be engaging in these conversations and it doesn't matter what particular confession you adhere to it just doesn't if you're going to be a biblical Christian these are these are this is the space in which we're going to have to start operating because you have to have eyes to see where where the nation is going. No I know I realize just he keeps looking at me like if you ask more questions it's already been an hour we're going to lose everybody but the biggest part of this book right so you you build in these these first six chapters to get us into chapter seven through 12 to really what is it then mean what is it that what is what is a view of Christian federalism that you know me and my family can engage with that that that Our our fellow covenant members and our church can engage with what can we do how do we do this so if you there's so many things like practical things that you write in this what are some of the key like if you were to give somebody just a couple of key points of how to actually begin to see Christian federalism which is a by way a great way to frame Christian nationalism if someone doesn't like Christian nationalism just tell him you're a Christian federalist right right yeah this book was so really well in Virginia like I feel like it's like five and so with my Virginia and friends I'm really hoping so I'm actually I'm going to try to advocate for it to be used in a liberty class we'll see if that happens. Oh boy. Just give us an email and we'll take care of it okay you just give us an email in a name. All right. You know what that's a good idea. I'd be like hey the group of brothers have something to say to you. We have a very particular set of skills. Oh you guys were thinking threatening physically okay. I will become their existential threat. So one of the things that I think is becomes foundational is is that thing that people are afraid to say is that that word patriarchy because understanding that that biblical headship is actually is actually where we get federalism right. Adam was our federal head in the garden who sinned and Jesus is the second Adam who obeys and by faith might be the second Adam. My federal headship is transferring from from Adam to Jesus and from its 512 through 21 but similarly when we look at what and what makes a people it's built around the family you have fathers who are heads in their homes and then those fathers have fathers and then those fathers have fathers and you you form the extended families and tribes and there is this idea that it that is through the covenant of which federal is from photos which is the Latin for covenant. The covenant of the family which the father is head is where we get the idea of of a of a federal concept and that that that kind of aggregates into whole societies which means then if you don't reflect Christ love for the church right the sacrificial protective love that a father provides right and the godly submission of the family under that that headship if we're not reflecting that well in the home well then you can't. We can't build good churches right because in pastoral pistols make it really clear that like a man has to prove himself there and even his wife has to prove himself and herself in that right well then we see this beyond this like this is like the society builds from there you build your church you build your your governance all of this builds off with the family so I would say that kind of becomes the fundamental thing like you can't have feminism and have a federalist society. You can't fact feminism is a fundamentally Marxist concept even and so the first thing is like men you've got to be good men you've got to you've got to lead you've got to provide you've got to protect you've got to sacrifice and you've got a marry a godly woman will be a part of that. So it's a we build from that and we go into very specific things you can do as a family like hey I can I can homeschool my kids and then now they're not being indoctrinated and I can make these decisions that allow even the even the way we run our finances to benefit the household within the wife is like I'm going to multiply this I'm going to buy you know to cover up to be one woman she's like I'm I'm buying land I'm investing right which by the way is the opposite of a covering ignorant woman right the idea she's thriving. The crime out loud she's she's she's running the family estate right he's making the money and he's he's going he's in the public square right he's leading because she's able to run the household this is not a woman who asked to ask her husband for every day but it is a woman who is under her husband's headship right anyway that's a whole thing but that's right there is how. And people Christianity you run you in people Christianity you run a whole household from the investments to the clothes right and in feminism you buy seven cats so I don't know which one would you really want like and the audience these days you might even have sex with them like I don't know like that that's just where we're at. It is a wild. I was going to say anything thank you Dan. Continue on dad save Jesse from incredibly. I'm going to see that both of you render the other each of you render the other speech list at different times and yeah I'm going to find like five news articles about about exactly what I described and I'm going to send in our group chat and you guys are going to have to. And Jesse's algorithm includes bestiality. I don't approve sorry Dan go ahead. Okay and now now understand all these things about the podcast is good. But yeah we go from there in a very practical things related to running your household to even running the church. The the value of things like church discipline the value of pastors coming together and and publicly condemning things in the public square and like I mean think about issuing a press release. When it's like hey the mayor has done this thing and it is a godless abomination he is framed injustice by statutes and the pastors of our town have come together in agreement or maybe it's just maybe it's one pastor but like we're going to send this to the local news into the community forum on Facebook. And we're just going to make sure that everybody understands that we've repudiated this or we'll affirm things that are righteous. The idea is that the church not only preaches on things and holds people accountable to doing things the way of the way of Christ but also we speak publicly these things because we have historically been the voice for that we should continue to be so. Yeah we go into all kinds of things we're going to economics and where you're investing your money in your 401k and making sure it's not for one day and it's going to some legit things and faithful things and then we're going to very I get into grassroots politics stuff like hey you know you can get a guy from your church you faithful. A guy from the other boundist church or praise material church in town and you run them together for the school board. He's been the same money right you put them on the same signs and you have them share and the pastors actually promote them and you actually get the word out about them and then so when the election happens you had to spend half as much money for twice the result. You do that for two election cycles and you can run that school board and then you take this size of action right you start removing DEI stuff and all of them homosexual propaganda in the school library and you fire the trans superintendant and like you take action quick and then oh you balance the budget and then do your best to make sure that people are happy for you know they're going to come against you in the next one and so you try to make sure that you can. We just get into the factual things there but it's all built around the local level of family because we can actually make change there you guys local elections for school board are swung by 50 to 200 votes most of the time right that's not very many churches getting proactive and simply getting the vote out even even in Oregon like we actually know that like we could if we get the vote out in Oregon we win right the problem is that Christians won't get out and vote so if pastors are proactive. And we give legitimate people to vote for unlike here in Ohio we have a couple of anti price for governor that we have a choice between i'm probably not going to vote for you to do it like i'm i'm i'm think i'm landing on that. But imagine if we if Christians are not waiting for the Republic party to do something because i don't need them at the local level anyway, but I can proactively get some guys up there run them for office get the church behind them get them in do real things. Well then we can we can make something happen there we can declare Jesus came with my little city and I can win with 50 votes our county commissioner just one on 17 votes and he's absolute trash no one likes him right so like we we can make things happen here so anyway I get into a lot of going all of those kinds of things we get into very basic strategy and like hey you can do that you can run for city council. You can there's probably probably two or three guys in your church that can grow and there's it's not going to take a lot of money because you can get people in the church to start sending on emails and making phone calls like we can we can get active with not a lot of money and we can make something happen anyway that's that's hopefully that answers the question. It does one of the things I will say if you were the level of practicality here goes all the way down to. What do you do if there's an idol in your town like what if you know if somebody constructs an idol and what what you do which I think you did very well was you break it down into what are what are civil responses and then what are what are uncivil responses if things escalate and and you did a very good job of breaking it on many topics just breaking that down to many different topics from biblical the biblical theology the biblical stance on the. Those things which is really great so if you're like if you've ever wondered like what should I do right. Dan's basically like well count the cost and here's what the Bible says. It is interesting that every time we come across a righteous response to idols and it's prepared and involved their destruction. Even when it was somebody else's property in fact especially when it was somebody else's property like Gideon just straight destroys. The idols and bail and he's and he's allotted for it. How many times we go and like well I can't break something like well maybe you should. I was reading these things I'm really thinking like just my logical brain just starts functioning or what's the good legal what's my good legal defense here. And I felt like well my best legal defense is to say I don't understand how this could be a hate crime. I didn't destroy anything that's real because either it's going to be a good legal argument or it's going to force the satanic temple to say no it is real. Which is going to put them on the record is saying that the baffamette is a very real thing and attached to their religion specifically. Because they like to say oh no we just put these things up symbolically you know we're actually not about worshiping Satan. These are just this is just symbolic it's in the name you know what's what's interesting though is to that point when Gideon destroys the idols of fail. And the people are all mad at him the response is well. If they're if they owe that strong of a god what why did he allow himself to get destroyed by that. Like what what what can he do maybe you should listen to Gideon who's saying we should follow the god of creation. Because your paper mache weasel gods. Workless. Like there no bail wasn't a weasel god. That was a good job. Well whatever it was. So sales on this I would say like I actually think that you can you can come now I'm I'm speaking as someone who is not currently involved in any criminal activity. Okay but like so I cannot offer legal advice but I think it would be interesting to get a new discussion about like what if what if we use Gideon's response. And I always advocate for it do everything you can to have things removed in a in a simpler way right. We're talking about a legal response a civil response and an unsiveable response like there's an escalation. And sometimes the unsiveable response is like hey you know there's there's not much illegal about you know leaving some vacant and some places for some people that seem to have an aversion to it right. And that might be enough to make somebody feel unwelcome. In Romania it worked they were going to try to build this gigantic mosque and so they just left some big parkuses there well that secretes the site the Muslims are like I guess what I'm going to do this now. That worked was effective. I think we need to do those kinds of things and I recognize that that I advocate for some things that teeter outside of the Christian niceness and I would argue go to faithful Christian brotherly love is what they are. I've been looking up some um some designs for very small tribushees that could potentially cling let's just say carcasses a significant distance and they're not hard to make they're actually and they're very small. All right this isn't like French warfare okay but like I'm just saying like you get this physics is great. You can get some physics involved and really get those things flying. Can you say something so cool. They're so cool. Let's see if we can make even siege weapons in the next crusade. I'm not against it. I'm not against it. Yeah. One of the things I've just been silently absorbing. I do this thing when we interview people where like I just want to listen to what that's to say like I'm listening to a podcast and I forget that it's you know I was supposed to host this. Oh your podcast. Well yeah our podcast. Our microphone. Our head. Right. Right. Like oh yeah it's my podcast after this question. But like I think I think one of the things one of the things well so I'll say I so I was able to read the first about the first half of the book I would say before we were able to interview. You're fast readers probably brother thank you. Um I So Justin has a terrible job but what he does have is the ability to listen to things. So I just make things accessible for him to listen to and he can listen to your book in a day. Frank it out. I don't have. I don't have a job where I can do that but I do work in the air conditioning so um um But uh no I the I think you sent me like a really early copy like way back on in like PDF. So I was reading through that as you sent it over to me and the first thing that struck me was the accessibility of it because you're really smart and I was like I don't know if this is going to be too much for me if I'm just going to stop but I I didn't do that. I mean I haven't finished the book yet but I didn't purposefully stop because like a nine So it was it was terribly accessible and so I want I if I was going to tell someone you know like from my perspective what I think they should know is it is a hundred percent accessible it's terribly practical it is well researched but like the other thing is is that I don't want to say this I mean no homo but it's it's an attractive book in terms of how you communicate because for so long we've been dealing with big Eva you know that that niceness or that you've talked about even to the point where where are these large pastors I don't want to say it was John Piper but I feel like it was John Piper to the point where like people are being asked like you know if an intruder is in your home like do you defend yourself and they say no I forget who I forget who that was. The Piper did say that he's walked it back a little bit since but he did say that yeah and that that was a pretty malacor thing to say I'm glad he's my understanding if he's repented of that so that's what I appreciate that but we've been steeped in that kind of teaching at a fairly large scale across our nation and we are dealing with we are to the point where a wildly insane president has more sense on some of these issues than Christians do and that's absolutely topsy turvy I think I think that that's a blight against the state of Christianity but your book is is thoroughly masculine and and and therefore very attractive too guys who are frustrated and want to do something but is also an extremely and extremely what is the word I'm looking for? Are you kidding? No productive outlet so so there's there's also we've we've criticized this in the past there is a section of like the new Christian right let's just call it like that and I'm speaking for myself not for Dan he's still he's a sellout but we're probably going but there's there's there's a section of people to the right of say where I am which I would say I'm fairly fairly far to the right in terms of conservatism and you might say these people are on the extreme of right but that that that have this angst the same angst that I find myself having as a young as a younger man and having lived through all of the big Eva stuff and the TG the gospel coalition and the Christianity today and you know all of that stuff and I find myself I'm like I just want to do something I'm frustrated with where things are at and I feel like so many outlets don't actually they're either not enough like to where they're like starting to say something but then they kind of like get gay and they just like fizzle out yeah because no one would say the words they're right they're afraid to say the words and you're you've never in in my time of knowing you you've never been that man you've you've oh you've never been afraid to say the words and that's how this book comes across so if I'm trying to capture a feeling that's the feeling I got from reading your book which is exactly what I expected having known you but I want to say that because there are there are parents that listen to our podcast there are grandparents that listen to our podcast there are young people that listen to our podcast and this is a really really good resource for all of you but also for I would say I would say it's a very it's written in a way that communicates to me as a man that gives me something good and right to do without feeling gay and without feeling icky yeah like like like wrong like too far to the right so I and like all I can call that is just biblical and I feel like so many people try to try to be one thing or the other but really biblical is just where we need to land and biblical encapsulates everything we need so and so I want to say that as an encouragement to you but also an encouragement to our listeners that this resource doesn't make you feel gay and it doesn't make you feel like you're some weird angsty person that needs to go and like you know burn things down necessarily in order to prove a point like it's it's it's it's biblical the majority of our podcast is basically the the listeners are basically like we need to do something we need to be Christianly we need to be Biblically literate Christians that engage but we're not going to be the with the people that possibly platform homosexuals and we also don't want to be with the people that definitely platform Nazis where do we go let me tell you Christian it's this book it is Christian federalism by Dan Sands it is the correct biblical balance of for you that want to do something with your faith actively and engage in changing the culture without being a Nazi or a homo this is the book this is it I have one final fun question hypothetical I'm reading this book and this is one of the ones that doesn't answer me like this is the question that I'm asking you because my son's going to need to know the answer to this question when he's teaching his grandkids okay that's this that's the view I'm having all right my my dispensational view my intensely masculine's got him my intensely masculine leaders leader driven son right my 35 year old 15 year old he teaches praise the craziest kids he is nuts he is amazing he went to school today had soccer practice today immediately left soccer practice mode a lawn all right as part of his job because he needs to get him done during school which is hard and then went to men's group all before 9 o'clock right so he's going to teach his grandkids this right this is going to be a question that he faces I don't think it's a question that we're going to face just not yet just given the course of history right like you were saying your book how awesome the how awesome you know the pilgrims would have thought that our our nation is 60% Christian they would have thought that's infadible how did you do it you mean you have churches on the other coast that are Christian they're Christian like they would have thought that's amazing right um this is a question for him let's say Christian federalism takes hold Ohio becomes a beacon of Christianity Christians are moving they're they're fleeing the disgusting humanistic materialistic socialistic drivel New Jersey to come to Ohio okay now Ohio is flooded with Christians they have more Christians than they have the resources and let's just say that pushes all of the Muslims the the mojabinans out of Ohio to say like a neighboring Michigan would it be okay to say that perhaps we need to reallocate the resources of Michigan to better accommodate all the Christians in Ohio do you know I mean yeah I think I know what you're saying well I'll say two things on this first of all uh Christians make stuff right the the concept of redemption and lift that we saw at the the first grade awakening which I actually think we've only had one I don't think the second was a real one um but it wasn't any are you talking about that one that happened at that college a few years back no no so um so well one you get the Christians together they're the ones that produce one right uh Muslims don't produce like look at Afghanistan now as a paired as compared to Afghanistan in the 1970s used to be beautiful and flowering and fruitful and it's a very waste look at Iran same with Iran um and the the list goes on um because uh Islam acts as locusts and it's part of it is built into their belief system they want to take and they don't want to like and also like that I can go a long time and it'll just sound offensive because it's true but um yeah so one thing is you will we'll be let's say it's Ohio and it's thriving or West Virginia and it's thriving the Christians are going to make this stuff we're not going to need to take something from those neighboring states with that in mind um there's a good chance there's going to be a whole lot of Christians in those states um and let's say something like that that happened and and the Muhammadans had had taken over more and they were instituting all these anti-Christian laws the need for crusading would be imminent and it would be and it would be a necessary thing like we would need to go to war to protect our Christian brothers um and um I think that that I'm hoping that things like what we just heard about um the we've virtually halted immigration from Muslim countries but um I'm I'm hoping that we continue to turn the tide there but if not well you know I think there's a good chance that we'll need to be in a place where we'll need to do defensive crusading even within uh within the United States I'm hoping that we don't get to that but you better be prepared for it that's why I'm like hey being good shape be prepared be an asset not a liability have a little bit of extra food stockpile just a little bit buy some ammo for your boys you know what I mean just be serious and this is what I just want I want I want Mason to hear it I want Jameson to hear and I want these boys to hear something like I'll be dead and going I I have no I have no intention of living on this place longer than when God says it's time I will be grateful to join him in glory so if I can encourage you so my granddad I remember to like I remember my granddad saying he's like son I just gonna be your lifetime that that we're someone's gonna happen and you're gonna have to be ready and his his view is gonna be the Marxist which it's interesting yeah it is some Marxist right but their Marxist Muhammadins but their Marxist and it was interesting to him he's like son I think you need grandson you're gonna have to be prepared for stuff and so he was like you know you need to learn how to use a rifle and you need to know what you need to preach the gospel faithfully and you need to be prepared for things and you need to and he's like I hope it doesn't happen that way but I want you to be prepared and yeah so it's interesting like we talk about our grandkids and like yeah I'm fighting about oh he didn't fight and and he and he got me prepared for it and so yeah praise the Lord I'm part there's there's parts of me that I'm like oh man if we're gonna have something go down do it while I'm still dangerous I'm afraid if anything happens I'm gonna be too old so yeah I look look I've I've seen investors to learn there are a lot of weird things you can put in your body this is true thank you for a long time okay I'm stronger than I've ever been I'm I'm I'm pushing it at the gym and so I'm like and I'm gonna keep doing that I'm gonna just keep pushing it and be here as long as I can and prepared as long as I can and still up until recently I was still bench pressing more than my daughter's boyfriend I'm afraid he's gonna beat me now but I'm like all right at least you're worthy if you can beat me see that's the thing like I'm I'm I'm counting them days until my son's benching and squatting more than me and yeah he's a ways off like I got he's got time he's got big goals oh by time by the by the end of my by the end of my sophomore year I'm gonna be benching more than you like oh you better get to work then yeah long way to go I tell you what something happens in those teen years I wish I'd been lifting then oh my gosh I've just watched it happen and I'm like I I don't heal like this I don't grow like what has happened what sin sin has happened Dan sin is a fall I've figured about I hit a I hit a PR on Bulgaria and split squats Monday and it's Wednesday and I'm hurting oh yeah you'll be hurting no Friday bro but Bulgarian splits I know they are murder I got a great one three I'll tell you off it's called it's called the mother ducker and it is the best leg exercise I have ever and I'm already scared of it it is scary I went to a trampoline park today with the kids and I'm afraid I won't be able to get out of bed it's so true I think I would have a harder time with the trampoline park than like I felt my the discs in my back bulging as I was and I'm like you know what let's just go play dodgeball I can stand still play dodgeball I don't have to bounce and play dodgeball to champion there's ligaments that have ended to gauge that just don't engage you doing anything else you know I was walking up into men's group and I was like I'm not getting out of bed tomorrow I'm like I'm gonna have to stand up after this it's gonna be you might have to help you're gonna know regards did I want to thank you for writing a faithful work that is it means a lot to us and I'm going to get again inform everyone you need to obtain Christian federalism when does it yeah is it officially released yet and if not why not and if not when yeah great great questions so you can pre-order the Kindle version right now just go to Amazon search Christian federalism Daniel Sam's and and you can pre-order that right now there is a print version that is officially really and by the way that Kindle releases on October 14th officially the print version comes out November 11th but a little secret for the Carpefeet Day listeners any day now there will be a print version available that you can buy right away and so what I'm hoping is to essentially do a little soft lunch to to my homies in the Carpefeet Day podcast world yes and just if you can go ahead and buy it and leave a review it'll help me out talk it up and then there is a good chance what we're going to do is release a second edition and November on what would be the official release but I have too many people asking and there's too much buzz and so I'm making it available it just won't like the current version won't have a forward there'll be there'll be some special art and a forward that I'll come in a later version but I'm making it available so have people if you want to be searching Amazon the next few days it'll come up and right now you can buy the you know the pre-order of the Kindle but the print hopefully will be available any day I'm literally waiting on Amazon what's that? listen no we're good all you jokers are on Amazon like 10 times of fricking day you're ordering everything from earrings to cliff bars to diapers to books to like parts for your car like you jokers like like you know that you should wait and just like for like a day and collect all the things and then just place one order you don't even do that you disrespect Amazon and you place 17 different orders throughout the day from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. and now they're all scrambling they're in like eight separate trucks it's just like a constant like parking lot battle in your driveway trucks I have like a Toyota Celica pull up I have like a Dodge Ram pull up like like it would be it would be no it would be the best honor if Moe could deliver your copy of like like like that would be just peak crusade yeah I would love to watch a heber miser like walking up the driveway be like hey man you know you're bringing my copy of Christian federalism thanks brother day is vault brother but but seriously you guys know how easy it is to buy stuff especially digital stuff because you get that instant gratification of like boom I do it all the time I'm just really revealing my own heart but but please go out and do that and you can trust that we will keep you apprised of every single bit of movement on this book and where you can get it as more copies are available for purchase so and Dan doesn't like he's not gonna like this that I'm saying this he didn't even want us to call us call him doctor even though he is a doctor but just like we are ardent about the the men that we bring on our podcast um John Cooper Alex Rodriguez beauty Fleming beauty Fleming like we bring one of these men that have written things that have done work we bring them all to tell you that Dan is a man who is worth the investment in he is an author and a Christian that that focuses ardently on ministry solely you're not this is not a big you with thing this is a man who will be faithful to steward anything that comes through these sales because his goal is the church moving forward and he will use it for ministry and I know that that's probably not what Dan wants me to say but that's just the reality that's who we interview that's the man that we bring on here um the work Dan's done overseas which is awesome maybe some time we should have him on for just a podcast about that because again yeah because we covered we covered what's we covered with Dan we covered some type of conflicts with Dan yeah but not not I wouldn't I just want to talk about his mission work because it's oh oh is mission work there you go um but anyway I just I'm just saying do it do it Christian I don't know why I thought war when that happens I probably wasn't paying you're you're fine but we were talking about this one time we did we did a one yes yes yeah thank you yeah yeah so don't be gay don't be a Nazi buy and read and digest the book buy Christian federalism don't be gay don't be a Nazi guys I greatly appreciate it um appreciate the work you do too by the way you guys are faithful you're encouraging you you you are blessing the saints and I have I have been a direct recipient of the blessings that I know I know there's been a whole lot of others so keep up the good work I'm always encouraged and podcast always blesses me and thanks for having me on and hyping up the book for me appreciate it absolutely yep and that has been Dan Sam's another episode of the Kruppi Fide podcast where we hope you dear Christian would seize the faith